The West Block — Episode 28, Season 12 – National | 24CA News
THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 28, Season 12
Sunday, April 2, 2023
Host: Mercedes Stephenson
Guests:
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner
François-Philippe Champagne, Industry Minister
Armine Yalnizyan, Atkinson Fellow on the Future of Workers
Craig Alexander, Former Deloitte and TD Bank Chief Economist
Location:
Ottawa, ON
Mercedes Stephenson: The RCMP at a crossroads. Can the Mounties nonetheless do all of it?
I’m Mercedes Stephenson. Welcome to The West Block.
Calls for a serious overhaul of the RCMP after a crucial report into the mass capturing in Nova Scotia: How can the drive rebuild belief with Canadians? I ask the interim commissioner in regards to the path ahead and what the drive is doing to analyze China’s interference in Canada.
And hits and misses for Canadian customers after a serious telecom merger and the federal price range.
The Royal Canadian Mounted Police are an emblem of this nation world wide however the forces repute and morale appear to have taken hit after hit lately.
On Thursday, a blistering report was issued over the Mounties efficiency within the worst mass capturing in Canadian historical past, the place a gunman executed 22 harmless individuals in Nova Scotia. The report discovered the drive failed in nearly each means. Public Safety Minister Marco Mendicino says they are going to do higher going ahead.
Marco Mendicino, Public Safety Minister: “We are committed to making the changes that are necessary not only to mend the trust between the police and the community here in Nova Scotia, but to ensure that this kind of tragedy never occurs again, and so that we can keep all Canadians safe.”
Mike Duheme is the interim RCMP commissioner and he joins me now. Welcome to this system, commissioner. Thank you for becoming a member of us.
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: You’re welcome, Mercedes. Glad to be right here.
Mercedes Stephenson: I do know you might be out in Halifax the place there’s a hurting neighborhood and in some ways, a hurting police drive with the members who I’ve spoken to there. This tragedy has affected many individuals and plenty of Canadians watching it are involved about the way forward for the RCMP. What would you say to reassure them in regards to the path of the drive?
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: Thanks Mercedes. We have 30 thousand plus staff that come to work each single day, and the mandate that now we have is to make sure the communities and the individuals of those communities are protected. And I’ve been right here as a commissioner for the final two weeks and I’ve met individuals right here in Nova Scotia and I’ll ultimately be going throughout Canada and I’m all the time amazed of the dedication and professionalism of our members all through the nation.
Mercedes Stephenson: There are suggestions on this report that echo earlier stories and this isn’t the primary time that the RCMP has had a really tragic incident that has seen the lack of a number of lives. Loads of these stories and their suggestions don’t appear to be carried out. Will this one be totally different?
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: Well I’ve dedicated to the households, to the survivors, to the victims’ households, to our staff and the members that I’m dedicated to, to undergo your complete report and we shall be following up on each suggestion there’s. We do have a workforce that shall be devoted to making sure these suggestions are actions and the progress report shall be printed on an exterior web site to which the individuals, the Canadians, Nova Scotians, can maintain us accountable by trying on the progress that we’ve been making on these suggestions. Mind you, some suggestions are below—shall be below my authority, inside my mandate. The others, what we’ll be doing is working with key companions, stakeholders and ensuring that we progress with the suggestions that aren’t essentially instantly below my mandate.
Mercedes Stephenson: Commissioner Duheme, a number of people say the RCMP simply can’t proceed being all the pieces to everybody. I imply, your drive has to do all the pieces from issuing site visitors tickets, to the Emergency Response Teams you had been on that take care of firearms complaints, to federal policing coping with overseas interference, organized crime, drug trafficking, counter intelligence. The FBI within the U.S. shouldn’t be out giving individuals site visitors tickets. You have a restricted variety of individuals. Do you assume that the drive can proceed to do contract policing, federal policing, municipal policing and do all of them nicely in gentle of what this report has revealed?
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: Well I feel we all the time welcome the choice to evaluate the construction that now we have. Currently, the RCMP actually has two particular mandates. One is a federal mandate, and the opposite one as you possibly can respect is a contract mandate. And I perceive there’s some work being completed presently simply to have a look at the construction that now we have in numerous provinces in relation to our frontline policing work.
Mercedes Stephenson: Are you stretched too skinny? I imply, I’ve talked to people who’re posted with the RCMP in Nova Scotia and so they speak about—and I’ve spoken to individuals right here in O-Division, Ontario as nicely—individuals being flown in continually to attempt to backfill however there’s merely not sufficient individuals. And if there have been to be one other incident like what occurred in Nova Scotia in 2020 once more in the present day, it’s not clear that the response can be totally different. Are you assured that the drive may deal with one thing like that?
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: I notice that the problem with resourcing shouldn’t be one which’s new and of late, inside the legislation enforcement neighborhood there’s much less and fewer an urge for food to hitch as an everyday—as a police officer. But what we’re doing is we’re utilizing our present sources to make it possible for they’re mobilized and are trying on the quick risk, or they’re prioritizing the work that must be completed. And sure, as you talked about, there are some information for which—when individuals have particular skillsets that now we have to fly them in to help on key information. For occasion, I take into consideration the go to of the President Joe Biden when he was right here a pair weeks in the past. We needed to fly in extra sources for that that had a skillset.
Mercedes Stephenson: Yeah. And I perceive that with the president’s go to, however my understanding that is regular policing that the RCMP’s already dedicated to that there’s not sufficient individuals for in Halifax. But I do wish to change gears as a result of I wish to ask you a little bit bit about your earlier portfolio. Just earlier than you grew to become commissioner, you had been the deputy commissioner for federal policing. Federal policing is also a really, very broad mandate, nevertheless it consists of issues like overseas interference from China. That’s one thing the RCMP has been speaking about and public security’s been speaking about it these days. Can you give us some perception out of your time in that job about what you noticed from China when it comes to interference in Canada and what the RCMP was doing about it?
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: Well the RCMP when it comes all the way down to the federal policing, our nationwide safety program has the mandate to analyze any prison exercise when it falls into the overseas interference area and we’re actively engaged. We have a number of information that we’re pursuing. We’ve had success in some information. I consider the file that we had within the province of Quebec the place there was a person working for Hydro Quebec. We had been profitable in laying costs towards this particular person and now we have different information which might be shifting ahead that we’ll achieve success in laying costs.
Mercedes Stephenson: I’m curious to listen to extra about these costs as a result of we heard the testimony at committee that the RCMP had managed to mainly shut down these police stations that had been arrange by Beijing right here and there was a number of of them. But it’s not clear to me if individuals had been truly arrested or charged in that. Can you inform us if that’s the case?
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: Yeah. I can say, Mercedes, that the investigation is ongoing and I encourage the individuals in these areas, reminiscent of Toronto and in addition to Vancouver, and the most recent one in Montreal, to come back ahead with info. And we’ve reached out. We have our neighborhood engagement people which might be reaching out. We’ve supplied a quantity through which they will contact us. And if doubtful, they will all the time contact their police jurisdiction who will ahead the knowledge to the RCMP.
Mercedes Stephenson: And I respect the decision for individuals to come back ahead, particularly from these communities which might be being focused, however I’m curious to know if below the legislation you assume you might cost people who find themselves working these police stations for China and Canada? Because one of many considerations has been are the legal guidelines in place in Canada to truly criminalize a few of this?
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: Well, when you have a look at—if there’s any type of intimidation or harassment on the neighborhood itself, that’s a cost in itself. So once more, now we have the—our investigations are persevering with in these issues and if we collect sufficient proof to put the suitable costs, we are going to accomplish that.
Mercedes Stephenson: There’s been some concern that the RCMP has stated that they’re investigating the leaks to media from CSIS about what are some very delicate allegations and paperwork, however that they’re not trying into the allegations that there was overseas interference within the elections. Why is it that the RCMP is investigating the leaks however not the allegations of overseas interference?
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: So I can affirm that we’re investigating the leaks that stem from the companies doc. When I used to be earlier than the parliament—the committee, I did point out that we didn’t obtain any actionable intelligence and after I imply—what I imply by actionable intelligence is intelligence that can be utilized in a prison investigation. And the intelligence that must be utilized in a prison investigation should be submitted in a way that it’s disclosable earlier than the courts once we lay costs.
Mercedes Stephenson: Do you’re feeling that CSIS has probably stood in the best way of that? Because I do know speaking to law enforcement officials previously, one of many tensions has been between what they will truly get CSIS to share with them in a means that legislation enforcement can act, as a result of intelligence and proof as you say, are two very various things.
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: I don’t assume it’s a supply of pressure, nevertheless it’s—there’s two alternative ways of working. We’re the companies which might be working with the intelligence and we’d like the intelligence to be actionable from a prison perspective. But it’s been like that for quite a few years. There’s been committees to have a look at how will we motion—how will we convey intelligence into proof? That’s ongoing and that’s been a sticking level for a number of years, however there are groups which were engaged on it to see how we are able to change that.
Mercedes Stephenson: Do you assume that the RCMP has been too gradual to reply about considerations of Beijing working in methods which might be attempting to affect Canada’s democracy?
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: I—once more, Mercedes, we function within the prison sphere. I’m not fairly positive what the opposite departments would have in intelligence. They would in all probability have intelligence that generally I’d by no means even see. But the place we’re at, I solely get it when it turns into within the prison area.
Mercedes Stephenson: Would you prefer to see extra legal guidelines on the books in order that the RCMP would have extra instruments to truly have the ability to go after a few of this? Because my understanding is that a few of it’s merely not prison proper now so there’s not a lot the police can actually do.
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: Well, if you ask any law enforcement officials if we are able to have extra legal guidelines, if we are able to have extra laws that might be sure that it will help us as we transfer ahead, but in addition be sure that there’s security of the general public and Canadians. I’d say sure, I’m beneficial for that—very supportive.
Mercedes Stephenson: Just rapidly on gun management. How is this system going with attempting to accumulate the firearms that the federal government has now prohibited? Is the RCMP making and progress on that gun buyback program?
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: There are nonetheless discussions with public security on that. As you’re conscious, public security has the coverage piece on that however we’re working carefully with them.
Mercedes Stephenson: One final query. I do know you had been in Haiti again in January. There’s a number of dialogue about Canada probably having a mission going there. There is, from my sources, I’m listening to a excessive chance it could possibly be the RCMP as a result of they’re speaking about probably coaching police. Do you assume the drive has the capability to do this?
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: So we’ve been working very carefully with the Haitian nationwide police. We even have elevated our footprint within the space simply to make it possible for now we have that—the communiqué. We have a line of communication with the director and be sure that we are able to help in any which means we are able to, presently with the variety of sources now we have there.
Mercedes Stephenson: Commissioner Duheme, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us. I do know it’s powerful if you’re the interim man, however we respect the solutions and sharing your morning with our viewers. Thank you.
Mike Duheme, Interim RCMP Commissioner: Thank you very a lot, Mercedes. Have day.
Mercedes Stephenson: Up subsequent, will a blockbuster merger between Rogers and Shaw result in decrease shopper costs? We’ll dig into that and the massive takeaways from the federal price range.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: Communications large Rogers is taking up Shaw in one of many greatest company mergers Canada has ever seen valued at $26 billion.
Industry Minister François-Philippe Champagne initially refused the deal however now says the merger shall be a watershed second in decreasing prices for Canadians who’re presently paying a number of the highest wi-fi costs on the planet, that’s, so long as the corporate’s uphold their facet of the discount.
François-Philippe Champagne: “And if Canadians do not begin to see clear and meaningful reduction in prices within a reasonable amount of time, I will have no choice but to seek further legislative and regulatory powers.”
Mercedes Stephenson: Will the merger actually imply decrease payments for Canadians? The announcement comes after per week the place the federal government pitched its consumer-friendly price range.
Joining me now to reply a few of these questions are two economists who is aware of these solutions: Armine Yalnizyan, she’s an Atkinson Fellow on the Future of Workers; and Craig Alexander, he’s the previous chief economist at Deloitte in addition to TD Bank. And it’s essential to notice earlier than we begin all of this that Shaw Communications and Corus Entertainment, the father or mother firm of Global News are owned by the Shaw household based mostly in Calgary.
Welcome each of you to the present. Thank you for becoming a member of us in the present day.
Craig Alexander, Former Deloitte and TD Bank Chief Economist: It’s a pleasure.
Armine Yalnizyan, Atkinson Fellow on the Future of Workers: Thanks for having us.
Mercedes Stephenson: Armine, let’s begin with you. We are listening to from the federal government and from these corporations that we shouldn’t be involved about much less competitors, that it’s going to in reality imply decrease costs due to the contingencies and necessities which were inbuilt, and punishments. There are sanctions right here if Rogers doesn’t observe by and different corporations. Are you assured that that is going to result in decrease cellphone payments?
Armine Yalnizyan, Atkinson Fellow on the Future of Workers: Well the final time we tried this, we created Videotron, which was a small participant in Quebec and has turn into a a lot greater participant, and has now been given an opportunity to unfold its decrease value construction to different elements of the nation, so perhaps that’s the get. But usually talking, you can not take care of a rustic that has bought three main gamers, perhaps now a fourth one on the rise that successfully colludes. You know, Rogers, TELUS and Bell not solely personal the infrastructure, they personal the narrative as a result of all these telecoms personal the best way the news stories the news. And in order that they have been telling us for many years now that they’re the one gamers on the town and so they’re the one ones sufficiently big to ship the companies and but they hold not delivering nice infrastructure, notably exterior of probably the most revenue wealthy areas. So I’m not holding my breath to see decrease costs anytime quickly and I don’t assume deal does sufficient for customers.
Mercedes Stephenson: Well I’ll say nobody tells The West Block what to say, which is why we’re right here in the present day. But we wish to speak about all of this.
Craig, , you go searching Canada and telecom’s not the one space the place now we have just some large gamers. I’m excited about banking. I’m excited about airways and it is a dialog that appears to be arising increasingly that Canadians pay much more for a few of these companies, whether or not it’s telecom or whether or not it’s aircraft tickets than you do somewhere else on the planet. Do you imagine that that may be a issue of lack of competitors and just some large gamers?
Craig Alexander, Former Deloitte and TD Bank Chief Economist: I feel market focus has contributed to increased costs for lots of various items and companies that Canadians devour, and I feel that the competitors bureau when it stood up and stated it was against the Rogers and Shaw merger, was mainly signalling its considerations about market focus. And, , it goes past simply the telco sector.
Now, as you stated, the businesses have made a bunch of guarantees that if they really make good on, can be optimistic for Canadians. They’ve made guarantees round increasing funding. They’ve made guarantees round decrease costs. But I’ve to say a little bit like Armine, I’ll imagine it after I see it, as a result of we’ve had a number of mergers on this nation the place corporations have made guarantees when it comes to retaining jobs or increasing jobs, or decreasing costs or bettering companies and, , the financial business historical past is full of examples the place corporations haven’t lived as much as their facet of the discount after which subsequent governments didn’t maintain them to job over the commitments they make. So, I’d say on paper when it comes to the message we’re getting, it’s—it’s a optimistic one. And if the—what’s contracted, materializes then it’s factor. But, , I feel you wish to have a little bit little bit of scepticism right here when it comes to the supply. So, we’ll wait and see.
Mercedes Stephenson: This was additionally per week as a result of we talked about the place there was a price range that had a number of little issues that had been clearly designed to take care of introduced individuals have but in addition some—some large spending, some large applications.
Armine, if you have a look at the price range what are your takeaways for hits and misses?
Armine Yalnizyan, Atkinson Fellow on the Future of Workers: Well gigantic miss on EI reform, which each and every economist on this nation will let you know is on the menu for a while over the course of the 12 months. And weirdly, , that they had this sort of throwaway line: $5.4 million in a price range that provides $46 billion over the subsequent years–$5.4 million on an merchandise referred to as work sharing and that may be the form of the brand new recession, the place individuals—employers particularly having a lot bother discovering employees, they’re not going to put them off however they are going to lower their hours. Now, the much less hours of paid work plus increased prices is an affordability disaster already for thousands and thousands of individuals and certain to worsen. And there have been crickets on that entrance. Instead, , it’s—what Craig simply stated about on paper this appears like nice news. And there was this cheery tone about the perfect of instances are but to come back within the price range, nevertheless it’s like what in regards to the instances we’re in? We simply went by the worst scorcher of inflation in 40 years and there’s actually a $2.5 billion measure of additional money to assist individuals out who’re the poorest, the those that make much less—have incomes of lower than $10 thousand could get $234 to assist take care of inflation. It was simply such a weird price range, as a result of as you stated, Mercedes, there was a number of speak about how we take care of junk charges, for Ticketmaster or for, , how we take care of the aggravation we’re dealing with at airports. Like these are aggravations. They’re inconveniences. They’re not a matter of starvation or homelessness. And on the homelessness entrance, there was absolute deafening silence on what we’re going to do in regards to the affordability disaster of rising rents once we’re pouring increasingly individuals into the rental market. I assumed these had been two big misses on this price range and sort of inexplicable, on condition that they stated they had been holding their powder dry. Isn’t this the time to make use of their powder?
Mercedes Stephenson: And on the powder, Craig, there have been some large, large applications in there however they had been type of saying on the identical time this was nearly an austerity price range by this authorities’s historical past. But there are nonetheless questions on development and about how we’re going to pay for this. They didn’t resolve to have taxes go up. The oppositions nonetheless not blissful and saying that they need to have lower taxes. Do you assume the federal government achieved their purpose of placing cash into the economic system with out making inflation worse? And can they pay for the issues that they’re placing on the market?
Craig Alexander, Former Deloitte and TD Bank Chief Economist: So when you have a look at the scale of the deficit that they’re projecting going ahead, they’re not likely including materially to inflation relative to the trail that we had been already on. So, , as Armine stated, , the cash that’s going to go to low-income Canadians, which they billed as a grocery rebate that had nothing to do with grocery. It was, , an extension of a doubling of the GST credit score that covers all the pieces. The—, that measure is $2.5 billion. It’s not going to trigger inflation. It’s not going to alter the Bank of Canada’s excited about, , the suitable stance of rates of interest. So, , when you choose the price range on, , is it not—, is the federal government not contributing extra to and inflation downside? The reply is: yeah, it achieves that. But then if you have a look at the price range when it comes to the measures inside it, it’s—it’s actually concentrated. It’s fascinating, some individuals referred to this as an enormous price range and different individuals referred to it as a small price range. And it’s a little bit of each as a result of it’s—it’s bought, , extra cash for the well being care sector, which we already knew about as a result of the federal government had negotiated with the provinces and it was large news when that was completed. There had been measures to handle the truth that the United States is now offering huge subsidies to their inexperienced power and inexperienced economic system sectors, and so the Government of Canada felt that it wanted to step up and compete with America in that area. So that they had to reply to that, after which there was the measure round dental care, notably for Canadians that don’t have it, like senior—some seniors and for teenagers—some youngsters. But exterior of that, it was an extended checklist of a number of small measures, proper, which is what you had been speaking about. And once we have a look at the fiscal projection, the federal government has now modified its tune. It beforehand had stated it will stability the books in 5 years. Well they’re not planning on balancing ever once more. They’re mainly saying they’re going to run deficits for the remainder of time. And so one of many issues that I’m fearful about is that if we get right into a recession, which I truly assume has a comparatively excessive likelihood within the close to time period, the federal government’s fiscal scenario goes to worsen. They’re going to be pressured to supply stimulus as soon as once more to assist the economic system and the federal government’s fiscal scenario goes to deteriorate, , considerably from the place we’re in the present day. So this actually wasn’t a price range that I feel was conserving the powder dry. And I feel that we truly must have an grownup dialog in his nation about—in regards to the applications that we’re offering and the price of them. Not that we have to reduce these investments. I feel we’d like extra funding within the care economic system, however we have to do it fiscally responsibly.
Mercedes Stephenson: Okay. Well now we have to wrap it up there as a result of we’re out of time, however I’m positive we’re going to be again with the state the economic system’s in and rather more to come back on how this price range rolls out. Thank you each a lot for becoming a member of us in the present day.
Armine Yalnizyan, Atkinson Fellow on the Future of Workers: My pleasure. Thanks for having us.
Craig Alexander, Former Deloitte and TD Bank Chief Economist: Thanks for having us.
Mercedes Stephenson: Up subsequent, uncharted territory within the United States as the previous President Donald Trump faces arraignment in New York.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: Now for one last item… Late Thursday afternoon, news broke {that a} Manhattan Grand Jury had voted to indict Donald Trump. Trump would be the first former president in U.S. historical past to face prison costs. He’s anticipated to be arraigned on Tuesday. This won’t be a case that’s restricted to the headlines or the justice system.
The unprecedented second in U.S. politics could have a profound impact on the 2024 presidential race and can check America’s establishments. And as everyone knows, what occurs within the United States has a ripple impact right here in Canada, for our politics, their polarization, and for our nationwide debates.
That’s our present for in the present day. Thanks for hanging out with us on The West Block, and I’ll see you proper right here subsequent Sunday.
