The West Block – Episode 19, Season 12 – National | 24CA News
THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 19, Season 12
Sunday, January 29, 2023
Host: Mercedes Stephenson
Guests:
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of Defence Staff
Robert Fife, The Globe and Mail
Stephanie Levitz, The Toronto Star
Location:
Ottawa, ON
Mercedes Stephenson: Crumbling capabilities and an more and more harmful world are elevating questions on whether or not the Canadian Armed Forces is on the brink. Could we nonetheless combat?
And the politics of branding: Party leaders are sharpening their assaults forward of their return to Parliament Hill.
I’m Mercedes Stephenson. Welcome to The West Block.
Canada is sending 4 tanks to Ukraine at a time when the army is stretched to the restrict: a candid dialog concerning the state of the Canadian Armed Forces with the chief of the defence workers.
And Prime Minister Trudeau and Opposition Leader Pierre Poilievre unveil their techniques because the House of Commons returns tomorrow. Will the politics of polarization flip off Canadians?
Canada is the most recent nation to announce tanks for Ukraine, following Poland, the U.S., Germany and different allies. Defence Minister Anita Anand says this help is essential for Ukraine to defeat Russia and restore peace.
Anita Anand, Defence Minister: “Ukraine’s fight to defend itself is also a fight to uphold the international rules based order that has kept us all safe since the end of the Second World War.”
Mercedes Stephenson: But as Canada’s worldwide commitments ramp up, a dire lack of personnel and tools are pushing defence capabilities to their limits right here at residence.
Joining me now to debate the state of the Canadian Armed Forces is Gen. Wayne Eyre. He is, after all, the chief of the defence workers. Welcome again, General Eyre. Always a pleasure to have you ever on the present.
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: Well Mercedes, thanks for having me right here right this moment. It’s at all times nice to speak to you and to speak to Canadians about what is occurring.
Mercedes Stephenson: Well let’s discuss tanks. This announcement yesterday that Canada was sending tanks, which is a giant deal for Canada contemplating now we have a fairly restricted tank fleet. We introduced 4. I feel some folks at residence heard 4 and thought that’s it?
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: Well…
Mercedes Stephenson: Why solely 4?
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: We’ve obtained to take a look at the entire components that go into this. You know, so our complete fleet measurement, which isn’t massive, the extent of serviceability. So we’ve had some challenges conserving the complete fleet serviceable. The distance that now we have to ship them to be operationally efficient in a brief time period, understanding the timeframe that Ukraine wants them and that’s the explanation why we have to work with our allies in Europe. I counted this morning, there are most likely about 1,300 of the identical A-4 variant that now we have in Europe and general with the varied variants there’s a number of thousand Leopard tanks in Europe. And so if we may be half of a bigger collective and pool issues like technical help, ammunition, spare components, coaching experience, to supply to Ukraine, the higher it’s going to be.
Mercedes Stephenson: I feel when folks hear that 4 tanks was form of the restrict of what we may ship, they go, ooh, what’s the state of affairs with Canada’s tanks as a result of yesterday, each you and the minister of nationwide defence had been speaking about there’s a sure quantity now we have to maintain with the intention to keep our commitments to NATO to have the ability to defend ourselves. With these 4 gone, are we on the restrict of what we may give to Ukraine with out risking falling under these ranges?
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: So this can be a fixed evaluation that we undergo. What do we’d like for our personal coaching necessities? More importantly, what do we’d like for our personal operational necessities? What can we ship? What is serviceable? What can we get from business? And weighing these components as they modify virtually on a weekly foundation is what we do. So at this level, 4 tanks, is what we are able to—4 operational, ready-to-fight tanks are what we’re delivering proper now. We check out the timelines to get them over there. So we’re going to fly them over there, most likely on our C-17s and to get them in time to begin coaching Ukrainians in as fast period of time as attainable after which get them into the combat. And so we’ll check out what we are able to do with the remainder of the fleet based mostly on spare components, based mostly on ammunition availability, based mostly on our personal necessities however that is the place we stand, right this moment.
Mercedes Stephenson: You had been dealing with some extraordinary constraints, each with personnel, and it’s been no secret, you’ve spoken publicly about how constrained you’re since you are fighting recruiting folks and you’re fighting retention. We know you’re fighting tools, too. Whether it’s that we solely have 4 tanks we are able to actually ship and really feel safe about our personal provide, to issues like a ship, the HMCS Summerside which took on water final week after a sea valve failed. A really outdated ship, issues about navy tools. Concerns about whether or not or not the military goes to get the tools it wants changed. Concerns about airplanes and whether or not or not the CF-18s can hold flying. What are the constraints that you simply’re dealing with proper now with tools and personnel, which means for what you’re able to truly doing?
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: So it comes all the way down to readiness. And what I imply by that’s our skill to reply at pace and at scale with the suitable capabilities. You know, we are able to nonetheless reply fairly quick however are we sufficiently big for what the requirement is. And so we have to work on all of these components. Now I’m involved as a result of we see that elevated demand sign around the globe and right here at residence, as a result of our safety state of affairs, globally, is deteriorating. And what which means is the nation goes to require increasingly more out of the Canadian Armed Forces within the years to return and so our job is to be prepared.
Mercedes Stephenson: Do you suppose that you’re prepared proper now?
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: Right now, for the challenges that lie forward, no. And that’s why it’s so vital that we reconstitute our drive, get our numbers again up. That we get the capabilities in place which might be related for the long run safety atmosphere, whereas similtaneously we deal with that future piece, having the ability to reply right this moment. You know whether or not it’s disasters right here at residence or the incessant demand for Canadian involvement abroad. Everybody desires extra Canada. We journey around the globe, we discuss to allies and so they say, hey Canada, you’re nice. We love having your troops right here. We love your experience, your professionalism that you simply deliver to the desk, however we would like extra of you.
Mercedes Stephenson: If Russia determined to develop the struggle, which is at all times a dialogue and I do know you’re having this together with your colleagues on a regular basis that they resolve to enter someplace like Latvia or Lithuania. What I’m listening to you say is that Canada won’t be capable to reply on the stage that we must be, if that occurred. Is that correct?
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: So we spent loads of time targeted on what our commitments are to NATO, what capabilities that we’ve pledged to NATO if that occurs. And so if we did have to reply, we’d meet these pledges however it could be a problem. It could be an all-hands on deck occasion. And that’s why it’s…
Mercedes Stephenson: So we’re form of proper on the cusp of not having the ability to fulfill our NATO necessities.
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: And so it’s a hen and the egg case right here, as a result of we’ve declared to NATO what we’re able to doing. Can we do extra? Well, we’d be very, very arduous pressed and in order that’s the place that stability is available in. You know, what can now we have that’s prepared versus what do now we have to construct?
Mercedes Stephenson: How shut are you to slipping under that, in case you don’t get folks and tools urgently?
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: Well it’s not simply us, and I’ve had lengthy talks with my allied counterparts. We’re not the one ones dealing with the folks crunch. I’ve had good chats with Australia, New Zealand, NATO counterparts. This is a phenomenon throughout the West: tight labour drive, not as a lot curiosity in army service and that worries me. That worries me from a collective skill to defend democracy writ massive. And so we’ve obtained to do our half. We’ve obtained to do our half with getting our numbers again up. Yeah, I’m involved, however I’m involved for the broader West as properly.
Mercedes Stephenson: Do you’ve gotten any commitments from the Government of Canada from the political stage of how shortly they’re going to substitute issues just like the tanks and the M777s. They say as quickly as attainable. In Canadian defence procurement, that could possibly be eight or ten years. Do you’ve gotten timelines for that?
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: So one of many challenges is, is in these capabilities, what’s being produced in the marketplace proper now. And so doing an actual functionality purchase is a problem after which M777s aren’t being produced at this level. And so we’re actively wanting what else may be on the market for functionality substitution.
Mercedes Stephenson: So we would not to have the ability to substitute the M777s then with different M777s.
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: Well, or will we get one thing totally different? Think M777 on a truck. Tube artillery is just not going away and the struggle in Ukraine has proven that. So now we have to interchange the aptitude. Is it going to be an M777 or is it going to be one thing else that launches a spherical over important distance?
Mercedes Stephenson: Do you suppose it’s truthful to say that we’re in a decade of darkness? It was used concerning the 90s, however I hold listening to it from troops and from retired generals. Is this a brand new decade of darkness?
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: History will inform. I feel it’s too early to say if it’s a decade of darkness. You know, I’ve definitely confronted some challenges on this place the armed forces writ massive are dealing with some challenges, however our job is to do every thing we are able to inside our energy to make it higher, to be prepared.
Mercedes Stephenson: The defence coverage evaluate is meant to take a look at army capabilities, our international coverage, our nationwide safety coverage and determine the place we’re going. I hold listening to from sources it’s been pushed to after the price range. Are you involved concerning the form of funding the army may obtain within the upcoming federal price range?
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: So the funding determination, you understand that’s very a lot a authorities determination and that’s past my—it’s out of my determination—it’s out of my palms. But what I hope this coverage does is assist us with the readiness that’s so vital. You know, fixing the inspiration of the Canadian Armed Forces, the coaching, the folks, the tools, the serviceability, the ammunition, all of these features that go into readiness. And then take a look at the capabilities that we’d like. Capabilities that we’ve seen from Russia’s brutal struggle of aggression in Ukraine which might be more and more related, that we’d like.
Mercedes Stephenson: Housing is a matter that I hear about on a regular basis from the troops. My inbox is stuffed with emails about it. They are complaining concerning the circumstances. There’s not sufficient. Of course, residing on the financial system is extremely costly proper now. Where are you at by way of placing cash into that form of infrastructure and the way quickly may the troops count on one thing?
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: Yeah, that’s an excellent query, Mercedes, as a result of my inbox will get crammed as properly. And each city corridor that I am going to, that’s the primary problem. So we urgently want a pay increase for the Canadian Armed Forces. We urgently want to herald the substitute for our submit residing differential. Right now we’re getting shut by way of the negotiations on it, to have the ability to goal essentially the most weak in our ranks. But sure, this concern, I’m ceased with it. We have to repair that as a result of we’d like our members. We want our members to not have to fret about their very own monetary safety. Not to be continuously wanting over their shoulders to see if their households are having to go to meals banks. So yeah, it’s obtained to be addressed urgently.
Mercedes Stephenson: Gen. Wayne Eyre, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us right this moment, sir.
Gen. Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff: Thank you.
Up subsequent, prepare for extra of this as Parliament returns.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: “Mr. Poilievre was out talking about how we should all invest in bitcoin to opt out of inflation.”Pierre Poilievre, Opposition Leader: “Everything feels broken. Oh—I just offended Justin Trudeau.”
Mercedes Stephenson: We discuss politics with two Hill veterans once we come again.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: As MPs head again to Parliament tomorrow, we’re taking a look at a few of the scorching button political points forward.
First up, the prime minister and the premiers will attempt to hammer out a brand new well being care deal. And with regards to the financial system, Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland is signalling robust occasions forward.
Chrystia Freeland, Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister: “There is still a lot of uncertainty in the world economy and that means that we do need to continue to take a fiscally prudent approach. We still do not know for sure how the plane is going to land.”
Mercedes Stephenson: And after all, Conservative chief Pierre Poilievre shall be again along with his firebrand model.
Pierre Poilievre, Opposition Leader: “Everything feels broken. Oh—I just offended Justin Trudeau. He gets very angry when I talk about these problems. He thinks that if we don’t speak about them out loud, that Canadians will forget that they exist.”
Mercedes Stephenson: To speak about all this, I’m now joined by The Globe and Mail’s Ottawa bureau chief Bob Fife; and Stephanie Levitz from The Toronto Star. Thank you each a lot for becoming a member of us on this Sunday morning.
Stephanie Levitz, The Toronto Star: Thanks for having me.
Robert Fife, The Globe and Mail: Thanks for inviting us.
Mercedes Stephenson: We simply heard Mr. Poilievre there. Of course, this face-off between Justin Trudeau and Pierre Poilievre has captured lots of people. I’ve talked to loads of of us who don’t usually watch Question Period on Parliament Hill and so they watch it now as a result of there’s an change. Where do you see this going, Stephanie, as these two leaders are available in and, you understand, generally virtually appear to be variations of the identical individual simply with very totally different politics.
Stephanie Levitz, The Toronto Star: Yeah, it was fascinating to take heed to Pierre Poilievre form of, I suppose, I don’t wish to say inaugural however his first speech to caucus of 2023, and he used a method that he began utilizing a bit over the vacations, interval, which is he stored saying Justin. He stored placing every thing on Justin Trudeau. It is all vested in Justin Trudeau. It is all Justin Trudeau’s fault. Justin Trudeau is accountable and he stored calling him Justin. Juxtapose that, if you’ll, with the prime minister’s 2023 speech to caucus, his first one to his MPs. He stored referring to Mr. Poilievre. Mr. Poilievre, like on this form of a superior tone versus an attacking tone and you’ll see how the 2 males are poised to actually vest the issues of each their events within the particular person. That is what it’s going to be. It’s the politics of branding. It’s the politics of individualism. And, you understand, for the Conservatives, the message that they’re going prime line. Everything is damaged, that’s their line and it’s all Justin Trudeau’s fault. Not the Liberals. Not the federal government. It’s Justin Trudeau. He doesn’t should be there. The Liberals, by their token will say it’s Pierre Poilievre. He’s going—taking the world to a darkish place. He’s horrible. Pierre. Pierre. Pierre. Mr. Poilievre. Mr. Poilievre. It’s very fascinating to observe them form of assault one another personally for his or her politics.
Mercedes Stephenson: I feel that’s actually hitting the nail on the pinnacle with the technique. Bob, do you suppose that these politics are efficient? Does that get folks to vote?
Robert Fife, The Globe and Mail: I imply, I believed Poilievre was very efficient when Trudeau got here after him, suggesting in a Toronto Star interview that he was solely pandering to white racists. And Poilievre put out a video on-line, it was in a short time saying, hey, look who’s speaking, Mr. Blackface. So, you understand, there’s clearly loads of dislike amongst them. The Liberals are hoping to border him as an extremist and he’s going to attempt to body the Liberals as individuals who don’t care about working folks, who’re struggling to get by as a result of the financial system is in robust form and inflation is excessive. And you understand what? Poilievre’s message may fit with extra folks than title calling about saying someone is an extremist.
Mercedes Stephenson: Lots of people are questioning whether or not we may see an election, if this looks like a marketing campaign tone. Do you suppose that is simply form of the perpetual tone that these two use by way of technique, or are issues heating as much as the place they’re beginning to weigh: will we wish to go somewhat bit early? And after all, that call would solely ever be probably as much as Justin Trudeau. The NDP has mentioned they’ll hold him in energy as much as 2025. But whether or not or not Mr. Trudeau desires that’s one other story.
Stephanie Levitz, The Toronto Star: I feel, what I hear from of us once I discuss to them on Hill is it feels proper now that we’re in some form of political holding sample that relates totally to the financial system and what’s about to occur to it, as a result of that’s the calculus a sitting authorities has to make. Would you go—if we’re hit, a recession and it’s a nasty one, which most economists aren’t saying will probably be, but when we do, does the federal government wish to go to an election when the financial system is unhealthy? I don’t suppose so. That doesn’t actually replicate properly on them. Does Mr. Poilievre wish to go to an election when the financial system is unhealthy? You guess he does, as a result of the strongest line for the Conservatives is on the financial system. It’s the road the place each ballot suggests extra folks suppose they’d be strong stewards of the financial system. The query turns into, you understand, what are the circumstances for the election? And I feel somebody wrote it—I feel it was even in your paper, Bob—which was 2023 is about Justin Trudeau making up his thoughts. It’s about him deciding what do I wish to do? Where do I wish to go subsequent? What is my legacy? And I believed it was a extremely sensible line, it was in your paper.
Robert Fife, The Globe and Mail: Yeah, no. I feel that’s proper. I imply, it’s as much as Justin Trudeau to resolve. I imply, all of the folks round him say, after all he desires to run. But the monitor report of anyone after 9 years since Louis St. Laurent may be very, very unhealthy. And this can be a man, Trudeau, who has solely been in a position to get two minority governments after his first majority. And the polls present that there’s loads of dislike for Trudeau. So, in some unspecified time in the future within the subsequent yr, he’s obtained to decide. Do I attempt to beat Poilievre or do I simply get out when the going’s good and never have my repute in ruins by shedding the celebration? And my sense is I don’t suppose this man goes to the top. At the top, he’s going to run once more. I’m most likely improper, however you understand, there are lots of people that make the error of, Stephen Harper being one in every of them, and it doesn’t prove very properly for them.
Mercedes Stephenson: Think they’ll make it previous two governments is hard in Canada. One of the large issues that they must attempt to determine is well being care, as a result of it’s a kind of uncommon points that basically touches everybody’s life in politics. You’ve had the feds and the provinces pointing the finger at one another, saying it’s your fault it’s like this. All Canadians know is it’s arduous to get in to see your major care physician, in case you’re fortunate sufficient to have one—good luck in case you’re in emerge. They’re going to be sitting down, the prime minister and the premiers to attempt to hammer out an settlement. Stephanie, what do you suppose the technique is right here for the premiers getting in and for the prime minister?
Stephanie Levitz, The Toronto Star: Part of it’s to return to these days when the federal authorities, the prime minister and the premiers had been getting alongside, proper? I feel through the pandemic, whenever you noticed, definitely cohesion in unanimity, amongst all the highest leaders on this nation, folks responded to that as a result of on the finish of the day, they don’t care what jurisdiction it’s as you mentioned. They simply desire a answer. They wish to see folks sitting down and dealing on issues. The problem, after all turns into, and I feel Stephen Harper, you understand, he was of the opinion, for instance, why go right into a room with a bunch of premiers? All they’re going to do is beat up on you. There isn’t any political win for you popping out of that room. But Trudeau wants a win. He must be seen as delivering one thing and likewise, you understand, placing some stress on the premiers to account for the cash that’s going out the door. And I feel that’s the difficult factor, is it’s probably not federal jurisdiction. But how do you shovel $25, 28, 29 billion out the door that you simply do with it what you want, you understand, no massive deal. I feel deliverables are real looking however, you understand, Trudeau has already downplayed expectations.
Mercedes Stephenson: Bob, do you suppose that that wants…?
Robert Fife, The Globe and Mail: I feel there’s going to be a giant pot of cash—federal cash going to the provinces—in any other case they wouldn’t be desirous to have a First Ministers assembly, the place they know that there is no such thing as a win right here for them and there’s no win for the federal authorities. People are fed up with the way in which the well being care system is and so they need motion. And kudos to the federal authorities for saying okay, we offers you a major sum of money however there’ll be much more cash, however it’s going to be tied to bilateral agreements the place that cash is slotted to go for long-term care services, for instance, in Ontario or Home Care in British Columbia. Each province has particular wants and these bilateral agreements, which is not going to be introduced as a result of they must undergo negotiations, however on the First Ministers assembly, however that’s going to, in a long-term, I feel, assist our well being system not in short-term as a result of we nonetheless have main issues. But within the long-term they’ll and it’s about time that they arrive collectively as a result of it definitely wasn’t wanting excellent for an extended time period.
Mercedes Stephenson: Well and it’s one thing that so many individuals speak about. We get so many viewer emails about all of us expertise it and there’s a frustration with each the provinces, however the feds generally put on it extra. And one factor that the federal authorities has additionally been carrying recently by way of the Liberals is these questions on exterior contracts. Whether it’s the McKinsey Consulting contracts or the outsourcing of ArriveCAN to supposedly this two-person firm that then was subcontracting, or the contracts that Mr. Hussain’s workplace had for the sister of one in every of his senior staffers, Conservatives at all times must cope with the stereotype they’re scary and Liberals must cope with the stereotype of corruption. Do you suppose that these tales are going to stay to the Liberals, Steph?
Stephanie Levitz, The Toronto Star: They at all times construct a story, proper? It’s at all times little bread crumbs alongside the lane after which it’s a must to marvel, okay, do they collect all of that up, the opposition events, and might they throw all of it at voters and be like, see, take a look at this. It is a story. They are this. They are that. Do folks retain that info? I’m undecided. You know, whenever you’re taking a look at issues like well being care, for instance, or a few of the day-to-day challenges which might be dealing with particular person Canadians, however what it permits the Opposition celebration to do, and we’ve seen Pierre Poilievre already start to do that, is once more, that juxtaposition that Bob was speaking about. They’re not in it for you. You know, they’re not right here for you. What concerning the little man? They’re having these massive fancy dinners. They’re spending billions giving contracts to their mates. And what about you? What about you? That is an efficient political argument.
Robert Fife, The Globe and Mail: I feel Mr. Poilievre’s technique is to go after the federal government day-after-day on the financial system and on inflation, however his backbench and the entrance of bench MPs are going to go arduous after the federal government on these scandals. Why is—why are we giving contracts to McKinsey and Company, which has such a horrible monitor report of working for the Chinese, working for the Saudi Arabia. All of those very questionable contracts and you then’ve obtained, you understand, the entire problem of that smelly cope with the Minister Hussain and the corporate is meant to do eating places and meals…
Mercedes Stephenson: Food influencing.
Robert Fife, The Globe and Mail: And abruptly they pop up as specialists on public coverage and media recommendation? I imply it simply stinks. And these sorts of issues, folks perceive that. People get that form of stuff.
Mercedes Stephenson: Well we’re completely going to be conserving a detailed eye on all of these political battles and I’m certain all those that we are able to by no means predict that pop up in entrance of us yearly. Thank you each very a lot for becoming a member of us and we’ll converse to you once more quickly.
Robert Fife, The Globe and Mail: Thank you.
Stephanie Levitz, The Toronto Star: Thanks, Mercedes.
Mercedes Stephenson: Up subsequent, what I’m looking ahead to when the House returns, tomorrow.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: We thought we’d do one thing somewhat bit totally different this week and share a few of what I’m going to be keeping track of because the week unfolds and certainly, this new session of Parliament.
I’m going to be wanting on the wheeling and dealing behind the scenes that’s going to be unfolding because the premiers meet with the prime minister to attempt to finagle a well being care deal.
I’m additionally curious to see what the Liberal authorities goes to sign concerning the financial system and the all-important looming federal price range.
Plus, U.S. President Joe Biden drops by in March for a go to. I’m curious to see if he’ll ask Canada to step it up on army spending.
And lastly, my favorite factor to observe, the political repartee between celebration leaders that can occur when Justin Trudeau and Pierre Poilievre are again within the House and dealing with off once more. We’ll be entrance and centre for all of it and also you’ll be proper right here with us.
Thanks a lot for hanging out with us right this moment and I’ll see you subsequent Sunday. Have an excellent week.
