The West Block – Episode 18, Season 12 – National | 24CA News
THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 18, Season 12
Sunday, January 22, 2023
Host: Mercedes Stephenson
Guests:
Alex Pourbaix, Cenovus Energy
Kendall Dilling, Pathways Alliance
Shogofa Danish, Global News Journalist
Heather McPherson, NDP—Edmonton Strathcona
Tim Laidler, Veterans Transition Network
Location:
Ottawa, ON
Mercedes Stephenson: A livid debate over the way forward for Canadian oil and gasoline. Are we headed for a a lot wanted inexperienced transition or risking financial catastrophe?
And, terror by the hands of the Taliban. Has Canada deserted Afghan girls and ladies?
I’m Mercedes Stephenson. Welcome to The West Block.
Ottawa’s plan for what it calls a ‘just transition’ emigrate oil and gasoline employees to inexperienced jobs, kicked off a firestorm this week and noticed the Alberta premier on the assault.
We’ll speak to the CEO of Canadian Energy large, Cenovus, about whether or not the oil trade can change, and he has a warning for Ottawa in regards to the worth of shifting too rapidly.
Plus, the rights of Afghan girls and ladies that Canadian troops fought so exhausting for, now being smothered by the Taliban. As Taliban loss of life squads hunt those that dare to face as much as them, we’ll check out whether or not the Canadian authorities is shifting quick sufficient to save lots of lives.
You could have heard the time period “just transition” final week, which sparked livid debate over the way forward for the oil and gasoline trade in Canada and the federal authorities’s plan for it.
The Liberal authorities says the transition would put together employees for the transfer to extra sustainable inexperienced jobs, however Premier Danielle Smith says the plan would destroy Albertans livelihoods.
Danielle Smith, Alberta Premier “It has nothing to do with transition at all. It’s about eliminating entire sectors of our economy and hundreds of thousands of jobs deemed too dirty by Ottawa elites.”
Mercedes Stephenson: Joining me now to speak in regards to the ‘just transition’ and the way the trade is planning to satisfy its emissions targets is Alex Pourbaix, president of Canadian power large, Cenovus; and Kendall Dilling, president of Pathways Alliance, which represents 95 per cent of Canada’s oil and gasoline corporations who’re centered on making an attempt to get to internet zero by 2050.
Thank you each a lot for becoming a member of us. A giant week for a reasonably passionate debate across the surroundings and oil and gasoline in Canada. Alex, I’d like to begin with you. What was your response to the details about the federal authorities’s plan within the ‘just transition’ and Premier Danielle Smith’s response to it?
Alex Pourbaix, Cenovus Energy: Well first off, Mercedes, I believe I might say that it’s one of many extra unlucky titles I’ve seen for a invoice. It actually results in this view that what we’re going to be doing is transitioning jobs out of oil and gasoline into different sectors and actually, as what we’re doing with Pathways, in essence our plan to decarbonize the barrel of oil, we see a chance to proceed to develop jobs in Alberta, and I actually like how the premier, I believe she described it extra as an evolution, the place proper now we have now plenty of working jobs in oil and gasoline. I think we’re nonetheless going to have these, however we’re going to have jobs in carbon seize, sequestration, hydrogen, in the end small modular reactors, and I believe that’s a way more correct approach of this.
Mercedes Stephenson: You know I consider Kendall that your group represents the 5 largest oil and gasoline producers in Canada, so that you’re speaking about important emissions and severe considerations in regards to the future. Do you assume that it’s reasonable for Canada to be transitioning off oil and gasoline, which the federal authorities says is inevitable? It has to occur to get to internet zero. Or do you assume that—I imply, clearly you consider carbon seize is essential, however do you assume the federal authorities agrees with that or are they making an attempt to speed up the transfer utterly away from oil and gasoline?
Kendall Dilling, Pathways Alliance: Honestly, proper now I believe anyone who’s severe about decreasing greenhouse gasoline emissions acknowledges that trade needs to be a part of that transition, current industries and that’s oil and gasoline but additionally many different heavy industries in Canada and world wide. Any notion that we are able to simply ignore them and give attention to different applied sciences to interchange that trade is actually short-sighted as a result of we’re liable for the majority of emissions. In the Canadian context, the oil sands are liable for about 11 per cent of Canada’s emissions, so we very clearly must be a part of the answer. And as Pathways, that’s what we’re all about is decreasing our emissions, parallel path with options and non-emitting types of power that may also have to be developed, and that’s the quickest technique to cut back absolute greenhouse gasoline emissions is to do these two parallel paths.
Mercedes Stephenson: Alex, I wish to come again to one thing you had been saying in regards to the considerations that you simply even have about making an attempt to transition folks too quickly off of oil and gasoline and what it might imply for the Alberta economic system.
The federal authorities says that they’re assured that they will discover jobs for folks in Alberta who proper now are engaged on rigs or in processing crops. It doesn’t seem like you utterly agree with the federal authorities’s evaluation. Do you assume that this can be a matter of the fallacious wording? Or do you assume that these are very totally different world views that battle between the oil and gasoline firm and the province of Alberta’s place and the federal authorities’s place?
Alex Pourbaix, Cenovus Energy: You know, Mercedes, I might type of return to the fundamentals right here. You know, this trade, the upstream oil and gasoline trade that we’re concerned in, I imply, I don’t assume the common Canadian simply appreciates what a large a part of the Canadian economic system this trade represents. I think that this trade might be going to characterize near 10 per cent of your complete Canadian economic system. This 12 months, we employed 500 thousand Canadians throughout the nation and, , a lot of banks have come out and have urged they anticipate this trade goes to pay round $50 billion in taxes and royalties to all ranges of presidency on this nation. So this can be a huge trade for the nation and, , no matter the place this all goes, I don’t assume there’s anybody who critically appears to be like at power, globally, who thinks that we’re going to get off oil and gasoline within the subsequent 5-10 years. We’re going to—that is going to take a long time, this transition. And our view at Pathways has very a lot been that if we are able to decarbonize the manufacturing of a barrel of oil, then it doesn’t matter if the world is consuming 50 million barrels of oil a day or 100 million barrels in 2050, the compelling case is made that these barrels ought to come from Canada and we don’t assume you have to transition off of oil and gasoline. What you have to do is to cut back the carbon, and that’s the place we’re centered at Pathways.
Mercedes Stephenson: I wish to flip that type of again on its head with Kendall and asking, , on the one hand is the federal authorities possibly being unrealistic with their timelines to attempt to get off of oil and gasoline, and ask you about carbon seize. There’s been debate over how efficient it truly is and if it’s simply delaying the inevitable. Obviously, you consider in it, however when Canadians are this they usually’re a change in local weather they usually’re an oil and gasoline trade that’s going to be pumping out extra oil and gasoline this 12 months than final 12 months, why are you satisfied that carbon seize is the longer term versus shifting to different fuels?
Kendall Dilling, Pathways Alliance: Well once more, Mercedes, it’s actually not an both or, it’s each, and that’s the quickest technique to cut back greenhouse gasoline emissions. To your level, there are, , options and non-emitting sources which can be being developed. That’s nice as a result of world demand is rising and we’d like extra types of power to fill that fill that wedge. When you look world wide, , the UN refers to what they name ‘hard-to-abate’ sectors and in order that’s not simply oil and gasoline, it’s metal, it’s chemical substances, it’s cement merchandise, energy era. There’s all these industries that want to cut back emissions urgently due to the local weather crucial, and there’s solely so many instruments within the toolkit to try this for positive and at the least within the close to to mid-term. And carbon seize and storage is clearly a type of that’s going to be extremely essential each right here in Canada and world wide. And the UN is looking for a whole bunch of huge scale carbon seize and storage tasks to be developed globally in order that we are able to cut back emissions now with expertise that’s available. And we all know—I imply we have now CCS tasks working proper now in Canada and world wide. The Quest venture, which is majority owned by one of many Pathways member corporations has been working in Alberta for seven years with wonderful efficiency.
Mercedes Stephenson: Alex, closing query to you. We have seen the prime minister of Japan come to Canada. We noticed the chancellor of Germany each speaking about entry to Canadian pure gasoline, one thing—however there’s an elevated demand in Europe now, clearly, for pure gasoline with it being cut-off from Russia on account of the warfare. I do know your organization offers not solely in oil but additionally in pure gasoline. Are you glad with the federal authorities’s response on this? Because I’ve heard some frustration contained in the trade that these are international locations that in the end ended up going elsewhere to search out their pure gasoline as a result of Canada didn’t appear to wish to be a companion.
Alex Pourbaix, Cenovus Energy: Well Mercedes, I believe it could be an absolute tragedy if Canada will not be there entrance and centre, serving the pure gasoline wants of the world. As I’m positive , we have now one of many world’s best assets of pure gasoline in northeast B.C. and northwest Alberta, the Montney area. We can and we have now the gasoline. We needs to be supplying the world’s wants. We’re watching an unfolding tragedy in Western Europe. You know, and one factor I might say about that. I believe that may be a cautionary story in regards to the dangers of trying to maneuver away from fossil fuels earlier than you may have alternative applied sciences which can be in place to totally take the place of oil and gasoline, however we have now this extraordinary useful resource within the nation. We are dedicated to the surroundings. You’ve heard us say as we speak, we’re dedicated to decarbonizing the manufacturing of oil and gasoline. I can’t consider a greater place on the planet to get pure gasoline than Canada. And belief me, the overwhelming majority of different international locations on the planet which can be blessed with the type of oil and gasoline assets Canada has, haven’t any curiosity in anyway or care about decreasing their emissions. So it’s a win-win for the surroundings. It’s a win for Canada and it’s an enormous win for the international locations which can be nonetheless unbelievably reliant on pure gasoline for his or her economic system and to maintain their folks protected.
Mercedes Stephenson: The federal authorities has stated there was kind of no business case to construct a pure gasoline line going out to the Atlantic coast and that we’ve basically missed the boat now. I take it you disagree with that? You assume there might nonetheless be one thing constructed?
Alex Pourbaix, Cenovus Energy: As I stated, I believe the useful resource is there. The infrastructure is basically there and , we have now to construct some incremental pipeline to get to the east coast, however as soon as it’s there that pure gasoline may be liquefied and may get wherever on the planet. This will not be an issue that’s going to be going away in seven or eight years. This is a priority, , dependable, inexpensive power. This is a priority that’s going to be with us for many years. And I can’t consider a greater nation than Canada to be supplying that want.
Mercedes Stephenson: Alex and Kendall, thanks each very a lot in your time. We recognize you becoming a member of us and I’m positive we’ll be speaking about this once more quickly, in future.
Up subsequent, after a former Afghan MP is shot and killed in her dwelling, members of parliament right here in Canada say Ottawa must do extra, sooner, to carry Afghan’s residing in jeopardy from the Taliban to Canada.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: Since Afghanistan fell to the Taliban nearly eighteen months in the past, the progress for a era of women and girls has vanished. Women will not be allowed to work, ladies can’t go to high school and the Taliban is looking girls who held distinguished roles, together with former members of parliament.
Last Sunday, one former MP was assassinated in her dwelling, she was a part of a bunch of ladies that Canadian politicians had been making an attempt to assist escape, right here. Obviously, she was not saved in time. And there are others like her, nonetheless trapped in Afghanistan and in hiding from Taliban loss of life squads. We spoke to a type of girls MPs however we’re not disclosing her title or location for safety causes. Here is what she advised us.
Shogofa Danish, Global News Journalist [Words of undisclosed Afghan MP]: “We are now secretly moving from one province to another province, from one house to another house, and from one region to another region because of the security situation, which has become very bad and make us very worried.”
Mercedes Stephenson: We’re joined by a panel to speak about Canada’s progress and the state of affairs in Afghanistan as Canada tries to carry extra Afghan refugees right here. We have Heather McPherson who’s the international affairs critic for the NDP. We have Tim Laidler, who’s with the Veterans Transition Network; a bunch of veterans making an attempt to assist Afghans who work for Canada come right here. And we joined by a brand new colleague, Shogofa Danish, who was an Afghan journalist. She was an anchor with TOLOnews community. We’re very excited to have the ability to introduce her as now with Global News, however clearly sorry in regards to the circumstances by which she has come to Canada.
Shogofa, you had been on the air, on the brink of go on the air, the day the Taliban took over. You needed to flea and go into hiding at your uncle’s home for a day. You then, extremely, got here again and determined to go on the air. The Taliban was making an attempt to direct you on what to say. Your life was beneath menace and now you’re right here in Afghanistan, however pardon me, in Canada from Afghanistan, however you’re nonetheless speaking to girls who’re again in your house nation and also you’re the one that spoke to and translated that interview with the previous MP. What is the state of affairs on the bottom for ladies proper now?
Shogofa Danish, Global News Journalist: Since I got here to Canada, so I at all times have my contact with the folks, with the ladies, ladies who’re nonetheless in Afghanistan, who had been lively girls or who labored for a excessive place within the earlier authorities. And lately, I talked with two MPs who’re nonetheless remaining in Afghanistan. So one in all them was telling me about her state of affairs that she skipped from one province to a different province and at first, one in all her kin advised her that we all know that the Taliban council despatched a letter to the province that it consists of 25 particular person’s names and your title can also be on that letter and they’re looking for you.
Mercedes Stephenson: So it’s a lot worse than what Canadians know.
Shogofa Danish, Global News Journalist: Yeah.
Mercedes Stephenson: And that’s so essential as a result of we hear about these excessive profile tales, Heather, and we’re making an attempt to assist these girls, however there are girls who’re merely not allowed to go away their dwelling with no man. They can’t be educated. They can not work they usually don’t have the profile. But I’m questioning what’s going fallacious that you weren’t capable of get the Government of Canada to carry this girl MP to Canada and the others who’re nonetheless there in jeopardy. What appears to be the maintain up on what’s clearly a really pressing state of affairs?
Heather McPherson, NDP—Edmonton Strathcona: So pressing, and , to get up on Sunday morning and listen to the news that we had misplaced one in all these MPs, that she’d been murdered, simply heartbreaking, simply actually, actually tough to listen to. I don’t know what the holdup is to be completely trustworthy. The authorities, the minister, Minister Frazer has the capability to do that. He has the ministerial means. He has the authorized means. He could make an exception for these girls. He can get them to security. We have been pushing since October to get him to try this. We’ve been making an attempt to try this kind of by speaking to him again channels, , beneath not fairly so publicly and nothing has occurred. And what we have now now’s we have now a murdered feminine member of parliament in Afghanistan. These girls are amongst essentially the most susceptible girls on the planet proper now. All girls in Afghanistan are coping with gender apartheid. All girls in Afghanistan are in danger proper now, however these members of parliament, these legislation makers are significantly in danger and we have now to, as a rustic who believes in feminism, who has a feminist international coverage, we have now to do what we are able to to get these girls out and that the minister has to behave urgently.
Mercedes Stephenson: Tim, you’re working to attempt to save Afghans who work for Canada and work for folks such as you if you had been in Afghanistan deployed doing translation, serving to with intelligence. The Canadian authorities websites that look, we promised we had been going to carry 40 thousand Afghans to Canada and we’ve introduced 27 thousand in. So clearly, we’re doing nice. Is there one thing about these numbers that we’re not understanding, that the state of affairs is so dire and we don’t appear to be getting folks out who you’re deeply involved about?
Tim Laidler, Veterans Transition Network: For positive, , we had been actually excited after we heard the 40 thousand quantity introduced, however what all of us that—I believe what most Canadians assume—is that’s 40 people who find themselves in danger inside Afghanistan when the Taliban took over. Unfortunately, what it’s turn out to be is it began to be watered down by they’re taking some folks from inside Afghanistan however they’re additionally taking Afghans who’ve been exterior of Afghanistan for a very long time in different refugee camps. So we actually wish to push the federal government to maintain the variety of 40 thousand of in danger folks inside Afghanistan, to increase that program to incorporate members of parliament who’re extremely in danger, as we’ve simply seen, to girls leaders. That group of individuals has not been captured within the first program that was introduced. We have been centered on the interpreters and the people who work for the Canadian mission that had been inside Afghanistan. But even these folks, a lot of them have been issued their paperwork to come back to Canada they usually haven’t been capable of come right here but due to a complete bunch of bureaucratic limitations which can be in the way in which in the intervening time.
Mercedes Stephenson: So I believe you elevate a very essential level there as a result of I believe plenty of Canadians, like me, assume that it’s simply that there’s possibly no planes getting out, or we are able to’t transfer them. But you’re saying, they’ve the paperwork and there’s the power to go away, it’s simply that the Canadian authorities—what aren’t they doing? Are they not granting a visa? Where’s the hole taking place right here?
Tim Laidler, Veterans Transition Network: I believe, sadly, there’s a feeling inside a few of the—inside the Canadian authorities that there’s a increased danger of Afghans coming to Canada and that they’re placing by this fingerprinting course of that should happen exterior of Afghanistan. So what that requires and Afghan to do, even one in all these girls MPs, if we had been to problem them their paperwork to come back to Canada, they’re nonetheless going to be pressured to go to a 3rd nation that has a Canadian embassy to do their fingerprints. To depart Afghan and do this, you’re going to want to safe your self an Afghan passport and get a visa to a type of international locations. Most international locations is not going to enable Afghan passport holders to come back in or be granted a visa. This is a giant barrier and what we wish to do, and we wish to advocate for, is for the federal government to discover a technique to do away with this requirement for fingerprinting for biometrics. What I’d actually prefer to see is the Canadian authorities fly Afghans instantly from Afghanistan to Canada, and as a public, we settle for the dangers that there could also be some folks on these planes that shouldn’t be right here. When they arrive and get their fingerprints accomplished, we ship them again. It’s not one thing Canada likes to do as a result of it’s a really tough course of with refugee legislation and all these different issues, however I believe the dangers are so excessive that we needs to be pushing for all of the remaining individuals who we are saying can come to Canada, to get their fingerprints accomplished in Canada and never undergo a 3rd nation.
Mercedes Stephenson: Heather, does that appear cheap? Is it one thing the NDP would assist?
Heather McPherson, NDP—Edmonton Strathcona: Well completely, and it’s one thing that the committee that was a few of the points round Afghanistan has beneficial. You know, we’ve seen this—there are answers. The authorities’s not taking these options. But I believe it’s essential to notice as effectively, these are members of parliament. Like that’s a distinct state of affairs, they’re at deep danger and I don’t assume that the method must be the identical for members of parliament that stepped ahead to assist their nation develop. Like these girls are in danger, we all know who they’re. They are in a distinct state of affairs and could possibly be introduced out, instantly. We might get them to security instantly and that’s what I’m going to proceed to push for. Working with my colleagues from all events, that’s what we’re going to proceed to push for.
Mercedes Stephenson: Shogofa, we simply have just a few moments left, however for Canadians at dwelling watching this, how dire is the state of affairs for ladies in Afghanistan proper now?
Shogofa Danish, Global News Journalist: Now it’s like a jail for ladies who’re in Afghanistan, particularly the ladies who’re lively and did nice issues for Afghanistan earlier than the Taliban. Like they can’t go to high school, they can’t go to college. They can not go to work. They can not go with no man out of dwelling. They can not go to work. Like they don’t have any participation in society and they aren’t allowed to decide on what they wish to do. What Afghan advised me and they’re hoping that worldwide communities and international locations like Canada, U.S., they need to concentrate that what’s going on in Afghanistan and what girls are going by. And they’ve this hope that as a result of they’re international locations that they at all times speak in regards to the freedom, democracy, girls’s rights, they had been supporting this stuff however now, why can’t they do something for them?
Mercedes Stephenson: Shogofa, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us and for sharing your story and what’s taking place in Afghanistan. We are, once more, simply so excited to have you ever right here at Global News and becoming a member of us on The West Block.
Heather and Tim, thanks, too. We will proceed to speak about this story as a result of we consider it is a crucial one for Canadians to listen to about
Mercedes Stephenson: Up subsequent, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau holds a cupboard retreat in Hamilton, and the Bank of Canada’s subsequent rate of interest announcement.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s cupboard retreat begins tomorrow in Hamilton and there’s a lot to debate, the whole lot from well being care funding and Ukraine, to after all, the price of residing and inflation.
And economists in addition to Canadians throughout this nation shall be watching the Bank of Canada’s rate of interest announcement on Wednesday. It’s anticipated that the financial institution will hike its fee by 1 / 4 of a proportion level.
That’s our present for as we speak. Thanks for watching. For The West Block, I’m Mercedes Stephenson and I’ll see you proper again right here subsequent Sunday. Have a fantastic week.
