The West Block – Episode 15, Season 12 – National | 24CA News
THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 15, Season 12
Sunday, December 25, 2022
Host: Mercedes Stephenson
Journalist Panel:
David Akin, Chief Political Correspondent
Amanda Connolly, National Online Managing Editor
Mackenzie Gray, Parliamentary Correspondent
Guest:
Olga Stefanishyna, Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister
Location:
Ottawa, ON
Mercedes Stephenson: Counting down the most important political tales of the yr, plus what to anticipate in 2023. And, a glance again at our largest worldwide story: Russia’s conflict in Ukraine.
I’m Mercedes Stephenson and it’s Christmas Day. Welcome to The West Block.
From convoy blockades, to the Conservative management race, to Canadians battling hovering inflation, it’s been a tumultuous yr in nationwide politics. Our annual politics panel weighs in.
And what’s going to it take to finish the conflict in Ukraine? Ukraine’s deputy prime minister says Western allies must do extra. We revisit that dialog.
It is time for one among my favorite segments that we do yearly. It’s our year-end and yr look forward panel with our political correspondents who give us the behind the scenes look on what truly occurred masking among the largest tales of the yr and among the perception that we don’t all the time get from these politicians interviews or the 2 minute packs that we do on the news. We’re being joined by Amanda Connolly, who’s our breaking news and politics managing editor for on-line; Mackenzie Gray, one among our Global National correspondents; and naturally, David Akin, a veteran of this panel, who’s our chief political correspondent.
Mack, the yr began out with a little bit of a bang, or a honk, relying on the way you have a look at it, for these of us right here in Ottawa. The convoy, which all of us bear in mind very effectively, you have been within the thick of it. When we have been speaking about huge tales for the yr that we have been trying again on, this was instantly the one you talked about. Why did you select that one?
Mackenzie Gray, Parliamentary Correspondent: Because it’s not simply one thing that’s impacted Canadians right here or people in Ottawa, however this was one thing that folks around the globe have been taking note of. Everyone was questioning what was happening right here on Wellington Street and what was happening in Canada with these truckers and there have been loads of issues occurring. We noticed numerous ranges of presidency actually drop the ball, notably the Ottawa municipal authorities, the police, even the province, too, actually not stepping in after they have been required to have the ability to assist the state of affairs out, and that’s why the federal government says they should convey the Emergencies Act in. We’ll see what Justice Rouleau’s report and whether or not or not that was an essential factor to do. But the political ramifications of it noticed Erin O’Toole out and Pierre Poilievre are available in.
Mercedes Stephenson: David Akin, you already know, the convoy is over and whereas they’re speaking about possibly doing one other one, that’s type of very—I don’t suppose the Ottawa Police will ever make maybe the identical errors they did there. But the considerations about type of the political setting and the division that it created are nonetheless very a lot alive.
David Akin, Chief Political Correspondent: Yeah, and I imply, to make it story of the yr, it began the yr don’t neglect and type of completed the yr with the fee, which was fascinating trying inside. Everybody’s fascinated to see if that convoy, let’s say, temper, carries on into infect or flavour our politics, relying in your standpoint. But clearly, one chief, Pierre Poilievre was related in assist of the convoy. Is it a characteristic? Is it a bug? That’s a query nonetheless on the market.
I just like the Pierre Poilievre story because the story of the yr for me, as a result of no matter that, the way in which he and his celebration at the moment are doing politics may have some essential impacts on all events. First of all, he grew to become chief by harnessing lots of people who’ve by no means gotten concerned in politics earlier than, youthful folks. People who have been indignant, however they acquired concerned in that marketing campaign. Can he transfer these folks now to vote within the normal election? Big query, as a result of that’s the holy grail for all events.
Two, the stuff he’s carried out after the election, actually the celebration equipment wanted to be modernized, the plumbing of the celebration. They’d misplaced two elections, regardless that they received the favored vote in two elections, as a result of the Liberals mainly are means higher utilizing computerized programs to determine voters and win particular ridings. It’s been the Liberal secret sauce. So, Poilievre has spent hundreds of thousands or is spending hundreds of thousands of {dollars} to overtake this laptop database. They’re overhauling their fundraising. If that’s carried out proper, that can pay larger advantages than the selection of chief. Without with the ability to match the Liberals on their computerized get out the vote stuff, they’re not going to win an election.
Mercedes Stephenson: And we did ask for Mr. Poilievre on the present for viewers who have been questioning. We had Mr. Singh on the present. Mr. Trudeau did a year-end interview. It will air later with our chief anchor, Dawna Friesen. Mr. Poilievre’s crew didn’t get again to us. We proceed to hope that he’ll come on the present, however for people who have been questioning, we do give equal alternatives to all leaders.
Amanda, popping out of the protest right here in Ottawa and that blockade that we noticed, and this type of change within the Conservative Party in politics, we additionally noticed an enormous change within the international coverage of Canada and the change of all of our allies as effectively as a result of there’s something unprecedented in my lifetime, I feel, and that’s a land conflict in Europe, the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It modified loads in Canadian politics and Canadian political discussions. It’s not simply one thing that’s over there.
Amanda Connolly, National Online Managing Editor: Absolutely. I imply, to start with, there’s a big variety of Ukrainian Canadians who reside right here, the diaspora, very vibrant, very robust right here in Canada. But once more, trying on the curiosity right here that Canada has on this battle, it may not have been readily obvious for lots of Canadians initially. It’s very clear not as a result of what this actually was, this was not simply an invasion of Ukraine. This was a problem to the worldwide worldwide roles order and Canada as actually a center energy with out the scale of another allies with the U.S., depends basically on that order to have the ability to defend our personal pursuits, to have the ability to interact in a secure means with allies and companions. And so there actually was a vested state to the menace to the safety of Canada right here and that the federal government has definitely been appearing on that.
David Akin, Chief Political Correspondent: You talked about the variety of Ukrainians and I did run some numbers electorally. I’m and that’s Shannon Stubbs’ using simply west—or simply east of Edmonton, now Lakeland. Twenty-five per cent of her constituents are Ukrainian. That’s the place the massive Pysanka is, if you wish to go go to that. But there may be such a stretch of using, beginning in Winnipeg going all the way in which as much as Winnipeg, the bread basket, the place you may have 10 to 25 per cent are Ukrainians. It’s an enormous deal for lots of voters.
Mackenzie Gray, Parliamentary Correspondent: And one of many options I feel this yr overarching, in case you’re politics, was division. We noticed this with the convoy and loads of different points. This was one situation that everybody agreed on. There’s been widespread assist from all events from what the federal government’s been doing to assist Ukraine, which I feel is a crucial factor to say in a divisive yr.
Amanda Connolly, National Online Managing Editor: How typically do you see unity in Canadian politics, proper? And we noticed this invasion right here. This is likely one of the uncommon points, actually. I feel Mack is correct, the place you actually do see this broad spectrum assist and recognition of the menace and the important existential nearly must act on this and to do it in a unified method.
Mercedes Stephenson: And exceptional, too, in what we noticed occurring in Ukraine as a result of everybody was predicting possibly 72 hours and Russian troops can be rolling by Kyiv. I used to be there in February and March and the resilience is unbelievable and it maintains to at the present time as Ukrainians face a really tough winter. It’s chilly right here in Canada. We all have warmth. We don’t must marvel if we’re going to have energy. That’s not the case for folks in Ukraine and we definitely maintain them in our ideas. It’s not the one problem to worldwide order. Mack, you labored loads on the story about China and the federal government in Beijing trying to intervene in Canadian democracy, considerations about Chinese-Canadian residents being harassed right here. Where do you see that story going?
Mackenzie Gray, Parliamentary Correspondent: Well there are loads of completely different angles when it comes to what the federal government’s going to do. I used to be with the prime minister when he travelled to Asia, placing his new Indo-Pacific technique into place. They put billions of {dollars} on the road there. But actually we heard from loads of the allies that we visited once we went to these completely different international locations that Canada’s actually been a Johnny come currently in Asia, and in the event that they wish to execute their technique which is we’re going to attempt to isolate China and we’re going to make extra buddies with these international locations there, they actually need to indicate up there. They’re making an attempt to do this now. I feel one factor type of referring to the international interference story, is we’re probably going to see the Liberals usher in some type of international registry of brokers sooner or later in time. We’ve seen the U.S. try this, the Australians have carried out that. The U.Ok’s that. That’s the massive factor that I feel from a authorities perspective we’ll see them be doing within the new yr.
Mercedes Stephenson: Amanda, the tone and tenor of Canadian politics is one thing that I’m anticipating we’re going to listen to much more about in 2023 and I do know it’s one thing you’ve been taking note of.
Amanda Connolly, National Online Managing Editor: Yeah, actually, after all, you already know working major on-line, you actually accomplish that type of the uncooked finish of loads of this coming in with social media and that. There’s loads of anger, actually and once more, I feel we’ve heard type of over the previous yr right here, a mirrored image of the truth that loads of that’s generational anger. It’s younger folks. It’s millennials, Gen Z, Canadians who’re younger who’re making an attempt to type of come up and make their means in life and are trying on the state of affairs that they’ve been dealt and saying this doesn’t appear honest. This doesn’t appear proper. Maybe my dad and mom or grandparents had a neater means of it. They’re housing. They’re inflation, meals prices; the well being care system type of collapsing earlier than our very eyes proper now, proper? These are main points that type of converse to that basic sense of stability and certainty that younger persons are on the lookout for after they attempt to chart the course of their lives. That’s not there proper now and I feel that we’re going to see that basically breaking free loads in 2023 with the frustration and anger.
Mackenzie Gray, Parliamentary Correspondent: That was the anger, although, Mercedes that Pierre Poilievre actually capitalized on. If I’m Justin Trudeau, I’m trying on the state of affairs proper now. We’re seeing inflation’s excessive nevertheless it’s beginning to come down a little bit bit. House costs have been excessive. They’re beginning to come down a little bit bit. Pierre Poilievre wants that anger and discontent…
Amanda Connolly, National Online Managing Editor: Absolutely.
Mackenzie Gray, Parliamentary Correspondent: If he’s going to proceed to effectively within the House of Commons.
Amanda Connolly, National Online Managing Editor: Absolutely.
Mercedes Stephenson: I’ve to ask the perennial query that all of us like to ask one another in Canadian politics. Could there be an election? There is the NDP-Liberal deal, however Jagmeet Singh has been hinting about doubtlessly pulling his assist over well being care. What do you suppose the possibilities are, Mack, of an election in 2023?
Mackenzie Gray, Parliamentary Correspondent: I’ve talked to some senior Liberals who suppose there definitely is a chance later within the yr for one to occur. I don’t essentially suppose it’s going to be Jagmeet Singh pulling the wire on it. The NDP don’t have as a lot cash. Does he have the recognition proper now to go to the polls? I’m unsure about that. But one factor I’m assured about, Justin Trudeau’s going to stay round. Will Chrystia Freeland be there for the following election? I don’t suppose so.
Mercedes Stephenson: Oooh, that’s a…that’s a daring prediction.
David Akin, Chief Political Correspondent: Can you say Finance Minister Charles Sousa simply elected in Mississauga—Lakeshore?
Mackenzie Gray, Parliamentary Correspondent: Yeah.
Mercedes Stephenson: So David, you already know, if there may be this election, Justin Trudeau goes once more; he desires to go up in opposition to Pierre Poilievre?
David Akin, Chief Political Correspondent: Yeah, I feel he does truly, that’s my feeling. But I’ll be the previous…I’m the previous man right here on the panel so I’ll play that half—Jack Layton withdrew assist of Paul Martin’s minority in 2006 and it was on well being care. What do now we have occur right now, proper? Jagmeet Singh signalling that, however you already know what? Jack Layton withdrew assist and in got here 10 years of the Harper authorities. But you already know what? Jack Layton and Stephen Harper, they acquired alongside fairly effectively throughout the minority years. Layton acquired loads of stuff carried out with a Conservative. Now I’ll search for extra election-y hypothesis after I see the chance that Jagmeet Singh and Pierre Poilievre can come to some agreements to assist a possible minority, as a result of the Conservatives want robust New Democrats to beat Liberals in downtown Toronto, in some key B.C. ridings, and with out New Democrats, and so they’ve been a little bit weak on the margins, it’s to the Liberal benefit. So that’s the panorama I’m , however I simply suppose again to the way it was in ’06 when Layton mentioned that’s it, I’m pulling the plug on a really lengthy within the tooth Liberal authorities, when these circumstances may exist this time round then I’ll be extra inclined. But till then, yeah I feel Trudeau desires to go at Mr. Poilievre.
Mercedes Stephenson: What’s your pondering on this, Amanda?
Amanda Connolly, National Online Managing Editor: Yeah, you already know I feel that that election type of on the highway angle there between Trudeau and Poilievre will definitely be fascinating. I’m not within the camp that sees one arising within the subsequent yr right here, possibly 2024, possibly pushing it there longer there into the yr. For me the massive factor, I feel, goes to be watching the inflation charge, watching rates of interest. There is loads of frustration, loads of anger, loads of monetary ache and financial ache in households proper now and notably with incumbent governments, the place is the route that frustration going to go, straight at Parliament Hill, straight on the Liberals. Unless they’ve a plan to take care of that or it comes down and that ache eases, I don’t suppose they’re going to threat it.
Mercedes Stephenson: I feel that’s nice perception, Amanda, and all of you. We recognize you coming and sharing your ideas on the massive tales for 2023 and for the final yr. We shall be again right here, after all, once more I’m positive, quickly, speaking about these very points.
Up subsequent, we’ll play again one among our prime interviews from the previous yr with the Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine and the dire state of affairs that her nation continues to face on this Christmas Day.
Olga Stefanishyna, Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister: “I think that the major spirit in Ukraine is that there is no way to surrender. There is only [a] way to victory.”
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: Russia’s conflict in Ukraine dominated worldwide news in 2022. What Russian President Vladimir Putin hoped can be a fast victory has been something however.
Ukraine, underneath President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has not wavered in its efforts to defend its territory.
Despite struggling main setbacks on the bottom, Putin continues to focus on Ukraine’s energy grid and different essential infrastructure.
Western allies, together with Canada, have rallied behind Ukraine and that was very a lot the main target on the Halifax International Security Forum I attended final month. I sat down there with Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Olga Stefanishyna and right here is that dialog.
Mercedes Stephenson: Can you describe for us what the state of affairs is like proper now for the folks of Ukraine?
Olga Stefanishyna, Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister: Well, we acquired used to, to reside in darkness, each being affected severely by a number of crimes dedicated in opposition to folks, but in addition the very first thing I observed after I landed to Montreal is that there’s a lot mild round you. This just isn’t what now we have. But I feel that what’s extra essential is the spirit. This is the spirit which can’t be undermined by any measures of demoralization Russia tries to placed on Ukraine, whether or not it’s destroying essential infrastructure, attacking residential buildings, large torturing of inhabitants within the occupied areas, or any failure on the battlefield, which forces them to make use of the hybrid warfare as a significant methodology of their aggression. So, I feel that the main spirit in Ukraine is that there is no such thing as a approach to give up. There’s solely a approach to victory and this results in a everlasting failure of Russian federation, though, after all, the struggling and the losses amongst inhabitants are actually, actually critical.
Mercedes Stephenson: And you talked about that lack of sunshine. It’s highly effective as a result of we take right here as a right, you’re proper, the road lights are on. Our energy grids are going. Ukraine, like Canada, is a chilly nation within the winter, and the Russians are attacking your energy, your vitality. That is such a hazard for the civilian inhabitants. How do you take care of that?
Olga Stefanishyna, Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister: Well, I feel that an important factor that now we have not been coping with that solely by ourselves. After the primary large shelling, counting round 90 rockets like 4 weeks in the past and the shelling are going down on a weekly foundation with the identical large missile assaults for all the world of Ukraine. We haven’t been standing alone. As [the] president, already mentioned publicly, it’s round 40 per cent of the weather of the essential infrastructure all through the Ukraine, largely the central a part of Ukraine which isn’t affected by navy warfare, has been broken and it’s actually essential that we’re restoring again the infrastructure in a really quick and a prioritized means. Basically all our technicians are additionally the heroes, other than the truth that they aren’t with a gun on a battlefield, however it might not be potential with no robust mobilization from our companions throughout European Union and a wider group of allies. But it’s additionally an important signal that Russians have additionally didn’t assault Ukrainian components of the essential infrastructure by hybrid or cyber-attacks. This has left no room for them however to attempt to bodily destroy what now we have.
Mercedes Stephenson: What does Ukraine want proper now from the West and from international locations like Canada? What can we do?
Olga Stefanishyna, Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister: In phrases of supporting the restoration of the electrical energy grids, after all now we have shared the listing of our wants and we encourage the businesses working within the electrical energy market to mobilize their efforts, to offer us with all the pieces which is required. This is a really exact listing of technical wants. Of course, all of us want turbines and the extra turbines that now we have, the higher. It may make sure the safety and stability of the networks. It can guarantee the soundness of the sunshine within the residential buildings, nevertheless it can also guarantee the soundness of functioning of the state itself, as a result of connection and electrical energy and vitality are the premise of functioning of the nation itself. So ensuring that now we have sufficient turbines and now we have sufficient technical components which we have to be sure that we will deal with and be resilient over this assault is essential. But, it’s not as essential as the flexibility to shut the sky and to avoid wasting our folks, to avoid wasting our lives and to avoid wasting our infrastructure. We want extra anti-air defence programs, which might allow us to revive the broken infrastructure, to regain the sustainable reconstruction all through the conflict and to be sure that we save the lives of our folks.
Mercedes Stephenson: Do you are feeling that NATO international locations are prepared to present that to you? Are they listening?
Olga Stefanishyna, Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister: Well, they’re. They are. There’s been a big breakthrough I might say when it comes to offering Ukraine with anti-air defence means, let’s say, from numerous international locations, even from these international locations like Spain, which has not been there earlier than the primary large shelling. But that is the time the place we must always transcend what we will, and that what we’re doing every day in Ukraine, whether or not it’s about navy and Armed Forces of Ukraine, whether or not it’s about there’s folks offering humanitarian help, or politicians and ministers who’re doing all the pieces potential to transcend any measures and past any containers. So if among the allies nonetheless suppose that they’ve carried out all the pieces they may, we guarantee you that you just didn’t, as a result of the conflict is lasting, persons are dying and the households and shedding their family members.
Mercedes Stephenson: Why do you suppose the Ukrainian navy has been so profitable? All the consultants I speak to behind the scenes again in February mentioned this could be over inside 48 to 72 hours and as an alternative, Ukraine has not solely put up an unbelievable defence however pushed Russia again in lots of locations. Why do you suppose that’s that you just’ve been a lot extra profitable than folks have been anticipating?
Olga Stefanishyna, Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister: I can do the identical comparability to our president. You know, Ukrainian president has been a revelation to most of the European leaders. His willpower, his dedication, the actual fact that he stayed in his workplace from the minute one of many—all of the shelling and everyone was asking me what would you say for that? And my reply was, is that it’s you who got here to know [a] president like that and he has all the time been like that. This is—the identical goes for Ukrainians.
Mercedes Stephenson: Are you nervous in regards to the potential for a nuclear strike?
Olga Stefanishyna, Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister: Of course we’re and we’re extraordinarily nervous of the truth that this nuclear menace could possibly be materialized by an enormous provocation on the Ukrainian nuclear objects just like the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, like Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant. Russians would by no means act bluntly by merely shelling the nuclear bomb to Kyiv. They would do the hybrid strategies and for us it’s actually essential that first, worldwide companions and leaders would have the equal response to any nuclear blackmail or nuclear menace which shall be posed by Russia, even when it’s carried out by utilizing Ukrainian nuclear objects just like the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant. But from the opposite hand, we perceive that this nuclear menace shall be hanging over all of us. Regardless of the very fact whether or not we react strongly or not strongly, there shall be such a menace. As lengthy as Putin is in energy, so long as the conflict is there, so long as Russia has any starvation for any aggression, whether or not in Ukraine or Poland or some other nation around the globe, this menace shall be there. The factor is what we’re doing. If we’re appearing in a means that we don’t wish to irritate Russia, this nuclear menace will all the time be there and this starvation for being unpunished will all the time be there. So we anyway, name upon motion to cease Russia, to finish the conflict and we must always do it quick. We ought to do it in a coordinated means and I feel that it’s us, Ukraine and companions, who ought to make the choice when the conflict is over, not the Russians.
Mercedes Stephenson: And how do you make that call?
Olga Stefanishyna, Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister: Well, it’s completely clear at this stage. The president of Ukraine has introduced the ten factors of the peaceable plan, whereas the negotiations are solely one of many factors. And I feel that everyone ought to stick with this understanding that it is a concentrated set of actions wanted to be carried out. On the Ukrainian aspect, we shall be shifting on every of those factors. This is the implementation of the [00:09:20 accommodations on the elimination of the nuclear threat, restoration of the grid corridor, exchange of all prisoners of war, bringing Russia to justice, then negotiations and then security guarantees to Ukraine. So these are the key elements we will be moving towards regardless of any developments and we hope that the partners will be sticking together with us. And then this will be the situation when we will be holding the file of the victory.
Mercedes Stephenson: Deputy prime minister, thank you so much for joining us today.
Olga Stefanishyna, Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister: Thank you. Thank you.
Mercedes Stephenson: Up next, as we look ahead to a new year, some final thoughts on 2022.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: We have witnessed a exceptional yr in 2022, one which I’ve been lucky to cowl on the bottom, crammed with occasions that remodeled our nation, our politics and the world.
It began with the anger and protest of the convoy, proper right here in Ottawa that noticed our capital remodeled, revealing cracks and divisions in our society.
We have been then instantly confronted with a land conflict in Europe and we deployed The West Block to witness the bravery and valour of Ukrainians. We have been additionally reminded that the best victims of conflict are additionally essentially the most weak.
At house, the face of politics modified with Pierre Poilievre’s large win to change into the chief of the Conservative Party of Canada, and Premier Danielle Smith’s victory in Alberta.
And we marked the passing of the Queen, Canada’s longest reigning sovereign.
We recognize you becoming a member of us on this journey, and I’d prefer to take this chance to thank the small however mighty crew who you don’t see with me on the air, however they’re the individuals who get me to air and I recognize them, particularly producers Bernadette Vanneste, David Baxter, Jillian Piper, Bryan Mullan; our editors: Frank Boldt, David de la Harpe and Diane Hagemeyer; and Luigi Della Penta, one among our cameramen right here in addition to Sarah Skryszak, my make-up artist who makes me appear to be this.
I’d additionally prefer to thank our director Clint Barradell and the remainder of the wonderful Edmonton crew. This is a cross-country effort to place The West Block collectively.
From all of us right here to you, Merry Christmas, joyful holidays and we’ll see you within the new yr.
