The West Block – Episode 13, Season 12 – National | 24CA News
THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 13, Season 12
Sunday, December 11, 2022
Host: Mercedes Stephenson
Guests:
Jonathan Wilkinson, Natural Resources Minister
Jagmeet Singh, NDP Leader
Location:
Ottawa, ON
Mercedes Stephenson: Ottawa ups its recreation on essential minerals; every thing from producing electrical batteries to our nationwide safety might come from these key parts. We’ll dig right into a multi-billion greenback technique they’re pitching.
And NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh is on the present. Does he suppose he obtained the deal of the century or has purchaser’s regret over agreeing to maintain the Liberal authorities in energy until 2025? We’ll discover out.
I’m Mercedes Stephenson. Welcome to The West Block.
The federal authorities unveiled an almost $4 billion technique, aimed squarely at positioning Canada as a worldwide provider of essential minerals. What are these? Well, take into consideration issues like lithium, nickel and cobalt. They’re all essential parts within the shift to electrical automobiles, they usually additionally include some fairly massive nationwide safety implications. And in some ways, Canada’s taking part in catch up on this subject and has to cope with main gamers like China who’ve been engaged on this for a very long time. So, is it sufficient? And can it occur quick sufficient?
Joining me now’s Natural Resources Minister Jonathan Wilkinson. Nice to see you minister, welcome to the present.
Jonathan Wilkinson, Natural Resources Minister: Thank you very a lot.
Mercedes Stephenson: I used to be studying by means of this technique and there are such a lot of mentions of nationwide safety and it’s straightforward to sort of hear, “Ah, lithium, copper, who cares?” But there are very severe issues about nationwide safety, Canada’s power future and it appeared to me like there was so much in right here that was not so thinly veiled references to issues about Russia and China. How a lot as what’s occurred in recent times with the federal government in Beijing and with Russia’s warfare in Ukraine contributed to your authorities deciding that you must do one thing about essential minerals, to get that offer chain inside Canada the place we’re not counting on international locations like Russia and China to supply these items?
Jonathan Wilkinson, Natural Resources Minister: Well it definitely had one thing to do with it. I might say there are sort of two drivers for this technique. The first is there is no such thing as a power transition with no important enhance in essential minerals and so Canada must do its half alongside a few of our allies like Australia who are also very centered on this space, so as to be sure that not simply Canada however the world can truly transfer by means of the transition and combat local weather change.
But the second a part of it’s, we have to be sure that not simply the minerals however specifically, the processing of these minerals, is completed in areas the place we will be safe and secure when it comes to our entry to produce. I feel the world realized so much within the aftermath of the unlawful Russian invasion of Ukraine the place Germany discovered itself very a lot depending on Russia for oil and gasoline. I don’t suppose anyone desires to be in that place on a go ahead foundation with essential minerals. So it did definitely inform that. I might say, you already know, if you concentrate on uncommon with parts, I imply it’s between 80 and 90 per cent of these are literally processed proper now in China. Well that’s simply from a nationwide safety perspective, not someplace the place we wish to go, our American buddies wish to go, our European buddies wish to go and so it did assist to tell a few of the technique, for certain.
Mercedes Stephenson: And for people who find themselves saying like what do essential minerals do? Why are these so necessary for power transition and nationwide safety? Can you clarify somewhat bit about that?
Jonathan Wilkinson, Natural Resources Minister: Sure. So if you concentrate on preventing local weather change, I imply a part of preventing local weather change is about know-how. Technology shouldn’t be a local weather plan, however definitely desirous about the way you usefully develop and deploy know-how is. Solar panels want essential minerals. Wind generators want essential minerals. Batteries for automobiles and an entire vary of functions require essential minerals like lithium and cobalt and nickel, and so you can not even have abundance of the applied sciences which might be going to assist us flight local weather change until you will have entry to important quantities of essential minerals. So they’re intricately, you already know, linked and that’s the reason there’s a large push on right here in Canada, but additionally in lots of international locations world wide, to make sure that we’re shifting as expeditiously as attainable, to create extra provide.
Mercedes Stephenson: My understanding, is that between this technique and the adjustments to the Foreign Investment Act that have been made final week, you’ve primarily banned overseas state owned firms from coming into Canada and proudly owning essential mineral mines, so a lithium mine, for instance. I’m curious to understand how strict that’s going to be, as a result of in case you’re speaking about some firms coming from locations like Russia and China, they might not truly be state-owned, however they could possibly be closely state influenced and plenty of of us would level to Huawei for instance of that. So how stringent are your guidelines going to be with regard to international locations that might doubtlessly be adversaries and what appear to be or look to be personal firms on paper, investing and proudly owning mines for essential minerals in Canada?
Jonathan Wilkinson, Natural Resources Minister: Well, I feel that’s an excellent query. I feel step one that we took was the brand new coverage with respect to funding in mining and notably because it pertains to essential minerals, the place we’re actually trying to make sure that of us should not linked to the state, that firms should not linked to the state. But there’s a broader assessment of nationwide safety and in nationwide funding coverage that’s ongoing, the place we truly must reply a few of these questions and it’s not nearly firms that is probably not immediately linked to the state however it’s additionally about different devices that actors might wish to use the place they merely don’t, you already know, make investments however they really have 100 per cent off-takes, for instance, within the mining area. All of these are on the desk. We want to make sure that there should not massive loopholes that we are literally doing the issues that we have to do. We welcome overseas funding from of us like our Australian buddies and our American buddies that isn’t being state directed. But in fact, we have now to be very cautious on this new geo-political setting with respect to investments that will come from actors that aren’t allies.
Mercedes Stephenson: I observed studying your plan there’s $3.8 billion, which isn’t any—you already know, that’s not chump change when it comes to cash. But what I didn’t see was actually a timeline and a few of what you’re speaking about is actually time intensive. You’re speaking about sending geologists as much as discover these reserves. Some of them we predict we all know the place they may be, however we don’t understand how a lot. Those areas are in lots of instances inaccessible and must have roads constructed. You’re speaking about having environmental power offered by means of electrical energy grids. I imply that is stuff that might take you many years to construct. Are you going to have the ability to transfer in time on this technique for it to make a distinction?
Jonathan Wilkinson, Natural Resources Minister: Oh sure, I feel we’re. I imply, I feel you make good factors when it comes to the size of time in some instances being elongated. But I might say there are lots of proposals that truly have been shifting by means of the method already. I imply you noticed us announce the approval of the Marathon Palladium Mine in Ontario simply final week. There are many different tasks which might be superior when it comes to their state of improvement. There is a few the place we haven’t even found the useful resource that’s true. But a part of that is truly constructing capability step-by-step. Some of will probably be close to time period, a few of will probably be medium, and a few of will probably be long term. But as I’ve mentioned many instances throughout this nation, this represents a generational financial alternative for this nation. It’s one that may maintain important jobs and financial progress for this nation, for many years. And so sure, a few of it would take time. But a few of it, truly, we’ll execute on in a short time.
Mercedes Stephenson: Realistically, how a lot of a few of these minerals do you suppose we have now? Because once I was doing the analysis, issues like nickel, we have now apparently 2.1 per cent of the world’s reserves in comparison with Australia who has 22 per cent. Cobalt, we have now 2.9 per cent, whereas the Democratic Republic of the Congo has 46 per cent. Is it well worth the funding?
Jonathan Wilkinson, Natural Resources Minister: Oh, it completely is. I imply, we do have important reserves in a variety of these items, however there’s huge untapped potential. That’s one of many explanation why we’re doing extra work when it comes to geological science on a go ahead foundation. I imply from a geological perspective, Canada has a chance right here that could be a very important alternative, in the identical approach that it’s for Australia. So it’s well worth the cash. It is well worth the cash not simply when it comes to the roles and the cash that truly comes from the extraction of minerals, however the processing which is sort of a manufacturing operation. The manufacturing of batteries, I imply, look, Minister Champagne has been saying battery manufacturing crops and electrical car manufacturing crops throughout the nation over the previous variety of months. Part of that’s as a result of individuals see the essential minerals exist right here they usually wish to be a part of that related worth chain and it’s additionally, to be trustworthy, partly as a result of we even have a clear electrical energy grid they usually can truly manufacture merchandise which might be just about carbon free. Canada has large comparative benefits on this space and we are able to capitalize on that, if we’re sensible, considerate and strategic. And that’s precisely what this technique is meant to do.
Mercedes Stephenson: I’ve to ask you about oil and gasoline as nicely. You’re the pure useful resource minister, the scenario with Russia, in fact, has created this world disaster, as Ian Bremmer from Eurasia Group identified on this present, even the German Green Party now accepting or advocating for fracked gasoline to be despatched to Europe.
One of the belongings you talked about studying on this plan was the significance of fast approval for tasks. Would you take into account extra fast approval for oil and gasoline tasks as nicely proper now, given the scenario in Ukraine and our allies in Europe?
Jonathan Wilkinson, Natural Resources Minister: Well I imply, to start with, I imply we have now been truly working to attempt to assist our buddies in Germany and the remainder of Europe, and naturally, to assist our Ukrainian buddies. You noticed that we introduced very quickly after the brutal invasion of Ukraine that we might increase manufacturing of oil and gasoline by 300 thousand barrels and barrel equivalents per day by the tip of this 12 months and we’re on monitor to do this. So that’s a part of Canada’s contribution to the world. Certainly, you already know, we’re taking a look at approvals, notably because it pertains to liquid pure gasoline, however that must be accomplished in a way which truly respects our environmental obligations as nicely, has to suit inside Canada’s overarching local weather plan, and must be accomplished in a way the place we’re assured that it truly goes to scale back carbon emissions world-wide. So we have now been taking a look at a variety of these issues, together with, you already know, a possible plant on the east coast of Canada that might be supposed to produce gasoline to Germany. But on the finish of the day, it has to make financial sense and it has to really be one thing that the German’s themselves really feel is one thing that’s going to assist them and that’s an lively dialog that we’ve been having with the Germans.
Mercedes Stephenson: One final query for you. Has the introduction, and now passing of the Sovereignty Act in Alberta, modified your calculus in any respect on the way you’re coping with that province?
Jonathan Wilkinson, Natural Resources Minister: Well, I used to be in Calgary to fulfill with Minister Guthrie only a couple weeks in the past. It was a really productive dialog. I feel we have now robust frequent pursuits in a few of the financial alternatives going ahead for Alberta and for Canada and I look ahead to constructing on that. I’m any person who truly is way more concerned with collaboration than battle. I was a constitutional negotiator for the province of Saskatchewan, so it’s an space I truly know moderately nicely. And I might simply say to you, I feel there’s a lot alternative if we work collectively. If we work collectively, we are able to seize these alternatives and that’s the message that I carry to Alberta each time I’m going.
Mercedes Stephenson: Minister Wilkinson, thanks for becoming a member of us this morning.
Jonathan Wilkinson, Natural Resources Minister: All proper, thanks very a lot.
Mercedes Stephenson: Up subsequent, NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh weighs in on the gun management controversy and why he says Ottawa isn’t doing practically sufficient to repair the well being care disaster.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh is asking out the Liberals for not taking motion on the lengthy wait instances in hospitals throughout this nation.
Jagmeet Singh, NDP Leader: “This is serious crisis and we need to see immediate action. The prime minister is not taking it seriously. As prime minister, that’s what I would do: Immediately meet with the premiers and find solutions to this problem.”
Mercedes Stephenson: Improving well being care, pharmacare and dental care have been all high priorities listed within the Supply and Confidence Agreement which is what retains the Liberals in energy with NDP assist till 2025. Mr. Singh has additionally criticized the federal government for what he says is “Failing to do enough to address high inflation and the cost of living” after yet one more Bank of Canada charge hike final week.
As the House is on the brink of wrap for the vacations, I’m joined now by NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh, to take inventory of the settlement that you’ve got with the Liberals, the state of the nation, and naturally, these sizzling matters in Canadian politics you’ve been coping with all week. Nice to see you, Mr. Singh.
Jagmeet Singh, NDP Leader: Nice to see you as nicely.
Mercedes Stephenson: I’d like to start out with gun management as a result of this can be a actually contentious problem for the NDP. You have each very city downtown ridings and really rural ridings, and gun management performs very in a different way in these two areas of the nation. There has been plenty of pushback towards the Liberal authorities’s proposed—very quietly proposed—adjustments to gun management that some say would see looking rifles, for instance, taken away. They’re involved about that. The Assembly of First Nations has come out and mentioned that they’re towards this. They’re involved about Indigenous looking rights. We have heard Charlie Angus, one in all your individual MPs come out and say that he’s involved about this. So I assume my first query for you’ll be: Are you involved about?
Jagmeet Singh, NDP Leader: Well we raised severe issues and I discussed that once I spoke to the Assembly of First Nations that we don’t wish to see any legal guidelines that breach the treaty rights of Indigenous communities, these treaty and inherent rights to have the ability to hunt and to supply for his or her households and reside a standard life-style. So these are issues we’ve raised, in addition to we perceive the wants of hunters and of farmers to have the ability to proceed to do what they do. And so we raised issues concerning the modification, however we’re united as a celebration. We assist the invoice which is to maintain communities safer with a handgun freeze and a variety of different adjustments. In truth, it’s issues we’ve improved. The crimson flag and the yellow flag provisions, we’ve truly made them higher as a result of we imagine these are necessary provisions to maintain communities secure. So our get together is united in assist of the invoice, however we’re additionally united in our concern concerning the amendments which the Liberals put in, within the final minute, which they themselves are having a tough time explaining the way it will work and raised some issues about impacts on Indigenous rights, in addition to hunters and farmers.
Mercedes Stephenson: So will you assist that invoice if the Liberals don’t rewrite the modification, to make clear?
Jagmeet Singh, NDP Leader: Well we’ve mentioned to them that they should repair it they usually’ve dedicated to fixing it. So our understanding is that the invoice shall be—the modification shall be mounted. And as soon as it’s mounted, we’ll check out it. But because it stands, this modification is problematic. It’s one thing that we have now an issue supporting.
Mercedes Stephenson: Looking as nicely about points persons are speaking about, the price of residing. Everybody is aware of it’s tremendous costly proper now. You go to the grocery retailer, it’s a fortune to place gasoline in your automotive, simply the fundamental issues in life are difficult. And you got here out swinging towards the Bank of Canada this week. They put one other charge hike in. You’re saying that is making it more durable for individuals to reside. I assumed it was fascinating that you just have been criticizing the Bank of Canada as a result of it sort of places you on the identical web page as Pierre Poilievre. The elected federal authorities doesn’t inform the financial institution what to do, so I assume what’s your angle there with criticizing the financial institution which is meant to be impartial of politics?
Jagmeet Singh, NDP Leader: Well we have now a really totally different place from Poilievre, who desires to personally fireplace the governor. We suppose that’s an overreach and is definitely making an attempt to undermine the independence of the Bank of Canada, and that’s the Conservative place.
Our place, is New Democrats have at all times been vocal when an establishment makes choices that damage individuals, and to lift the issues of individuals to say that rising rates of interest at a time when the price of residing is so excessive, will solely enhance the stress and burden on households, these with mortgages which might be variable are feeling the impacts proper now, with mortgage funds that at the moment are rising by over a thousand {dollars} for some households. And those who have debit, it’s going to impression them immediately and we all know extra persons are utilizing their bank cards to pay for issues like groceries and different requirements as a result of it’s so pricey. So we’re involved about that and we actually put the accountability on the federal government, on Justin Trudeau, to give you a plan to cope with inflation that doesn’t imply the one response is to extend rates of interest.
Mercedes Stephenson: The auditor basic got here out final week and mentioned that $4.6 billion in COVID spending went to ineligible people and it sounds just like the Canada Revenue Agency shouldn’t be too eager to strive to return after this cash. What’s your place on that? Do you suppose that that cash was given out too simply? Do you suppose that there needs to be penalties for individuals who have been ineligible? Do you suppose the CRA needs to be making an attempt to get this a reimbursement?
Jagmeet Singh, NDP Leader: A few various things that I wish to put out in response to that. One is that we draw a distinction between those that dedicated overt fraud and those that made a mistake. Fraud needs to be prosecuted. Fraud needs to be adopted up on with the fullest energy of the legislation and it’s fallacious. And we have to use all of the assets to go after fraud. We additionally make a distinction between the large fish and on a regular basis households that have been simply struggling and have been advised that this can be a approach to supply assist for themselves and their households and took that assist versus bigger firms that inappropriately used issues just like the wage subsidy. So our push is to say, let’s go after fraud and let’s go after the large fish, the big gamers that took plenty of cash inappropriately and focus our efforts there, and let’s not truly goal people who find themselves struggling as a result of they’re poor or individuals with decrease earnings, or those that took the assistance that was supplied as a result of they have been advised that that was the easiest way to get assist for his or her households. And so we make that distinction.
Mercedes Stephenson: And I feel that feels like an inexpensive compassionate response, however how are you aware who did it on objective and who didn’t?
Jagmeet Singh, NDP Leader: Well in instances that—a few of the proof that got here ahead from the auditor and in different sources offered, there was those that used fraudulent names, those that used the names of those that have been handed away or deceased. They used, you already know, inappropriate means to acquire the cash. That’s one thing that’s fraud and that needs to be prosecute, no query about it. And a few of the bigger firms that took giant sums of cash and didn’t truly hold their staff employed, didn’t hold employment ranges excessive, these are examples the place we are able to say nicely clearly that was not the aim and the spirit and intent of a few of the helps that have been out there and people are teams that needs to be requested to pay again the cash.
Mercedes Stephenson: It’s chilly and flu season. I do know you now have somewhat one your self, so I’m certain that the issues concerning the state of youngsters’s hospitals throughout this nation strikes house for you want so many Canadians. And for a lot of grownup’s hospitals as nicely, it’s being described as a disaster. Part of the settlement that you just laid out with the Liberals recognized dental care, well being care and pharmacare. When I used to be studying by means of your well being care part, it wasn’t tremendous particular. It didn’t have kind of the numbers and the quantities that the opposite sections did that sure the federal government to that. Would you take into account making an attempt to return to the federal government and do you suppose you may even renegotiate that? How do you maintain them accountable on well being care when it’s purported to be one in all your priorities however it looks like that is an ongoing catastrophe that’s unfolding?
Jagmeet Singh, NDP Leader: Well to start with, it is part of our priorities and we did lay it out in our settlement, you’re completely proper and it’s a catastrophe proper now. Frankly, the Liberal authorities is failing to indicate management. The disaster we’re seeing in our nation, the Red Cross being referred to as into kids’s hospitals in Ottawa, trailers being arrange due to the overflow within the kids’s hospitals in Alberta, kids dying due to the flu in B.C. It is evident that this can be a nationwide disaster and it can’t be solved on the provincial degree, as a result of one of many main issues is human well being care useful resource scarcity. So employee scarcity—well being care employee scarcity—that may’t be solved by provinces who’re making an attempt to recruit from one province, making a scarcity within the province that they recruit from. So that’s not an answer and so the federal government has to step up, present management. We must see extra funding for frontline well being care staff. We must see extra funding generally for our well being care system. We must see a technique round how we are able to sort out the scarcity of well being care staff, a few of that’s going to contain the immigration system. Some of that’s going to contain taking the Canadian—the brand new Canadians and Canadians which might be right here with worldwide coaching and unlocking their means to work in Canada. So there’s so much that must be accomplished. We’re not going to surrender preventing. We have an settlement that offers us energy. We’re going to make use of that energy to combat for Canadians.
Mercedes Stephenson: I assume that’s the place I wish to go together with that. How far are you prepared to go, as a result of this can be a actually essential problem? Pierre Poilievre, Yves-François Blanchet, Elizabeth May, none of those get together leaders has the power to carry down the federal government, however you do. Are you prepared to carry down the federal government over well being care in the event that they don’t enhance funding?
Jagmeet Singh, NDP Leader: Well, I might flip the query and say we’re prepared to do no matter it takes to combat for individuals’s—to get the well being care they want. And which means not giving up. A lot of instances, we have been confronted with a no once we mentioned individuals need assistance and we didn’t quit. We stored on preventing. I’m a fighter, that’s what I do. I’m going to combat for individuals. And simply because we’re not getting the outcomes now, doesn’t imply I’m going to surrender. We’ve obtained a capability to pressure this authorities to behave and we’re going to make use of our energy to make that occur. But sure, there might come a time when it turns into clear to us that the Liberal authorities is simply not prepared to do what’s wanted to assist individuals and we reserve the proper to withhold our assist. We perceive the ramifications of such a choice, however proper now, our focus is on preventing and never giving up on individuals, not giving up on the truth that this authorities made commitments.
Mercedes Stephenson: If a part of your combat is that you just truly do have that massive stick you can say, you already know, we are able to pull the rug out from below you. We can go to an election and this can be a disaster. What’s your timeline on how lengthy you’re prepared to offer the federal government to reply in a approach that you just suppose is suitable earlier than you say sufficient is sufficient?
Jagmeet Singh, NDP Leader: Well, we’re 9 months into the settlement. We’ve used our energy to get individuals assist and we all know that there’s much more that’s wanted. So we’re going to maintain on preventing. We’re not going to surrender. We’re not going to surrender just because we’re not getting the outcomes proper now. Canadians count on us to combat as arduous as we are able to to get outcomes for individuals. Unlike the opposite events who’re simply placing their fingers up and haven’t actually accomplished something to affect choices, we have now. We’ve made the federal government—we compelled the federal government to ship issues like dental care, to ship on issues just like the GST rebate, rental helps as nicely, giving individuals extra money of their pockets. And we all know that well being care is a precedence, so we’re going to make use of our energy and we’re going to maintain on preventing. We’re not going to surrender. The Liberal authorities made commitments to Canadians. We’re going to carry them to account. We’re not going to allow them to off the hook.
Mercedes Stephenson: NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh, I’m certain we shall be speaking about this once more quickly. Thank you a lot to your time.
Jagmeet Singh, NDP Leader: Thank you.
Mercedes Stephenson: Up subsequent, why political watchers are holding a detailed eye on the outcomes of a federal bi-election scheduled to occur tomorrow within the Toronto space.
[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: Voters within the Ontario using of Mississauga—Lakeshore head to the polls tomorrow in a race that has attracted plenty of consideration and curiosity.
The using has been Liberal since 2015, however the Conservatives did win it again in 2011 and it’s thought-about to have a variety of the sort of voters that Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre would wish to draw and win over so as to develop his assist in vote wealthy Ontario. We’ll be watching the result of that carefully.
That’s our present for immediately. Thanks for becoming a member of us. For The West Block, I’m Mercedes Stephenson. We’ll see you subsequent Sunday. Have a terrific week.
