The West Block – Episode 20, Season 12 – National | 24CA News

THE WEST BLOCK

Episode 20, Season 12

Sunday, February 5, 2023

Host: Mercedes Stephenson

Guests:

David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General

Location:

Ottawa, ON

Mercedes Stephenson: A Chinese spy balloon crusing by means of Canadian airspace and over the U.S.

Plus, beneath stress: The Liberals change techniques on some actually large points.

I’m Mercedes Stephenson. Welcome to The West Block.

The U.S. ambassador weighs in on the diplomatic incident between the U.S. and China, after a Chinese surveillance balloon was noticed floating over the U.S. final week.

David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: “They are a legitimate threat to the United States and Canada.”

Mercedes Stephenson: And the federal justice minister on bail for violent repeat offenders, considerations about medical help and dying (MAiD) for the mentally unwell, and a political climb down on gun laws.

Late final week, a Chinese surveillance balloon was noticed hovering over the United States. It additionally hung out in Canadian airspace. This incident has elevated tensions between the U.S. and China, and naturally, it has all of us fascinated with North American defence and safety, particularly forward of the president’s go to subsequent month.

I’m joined to speak about this by the United States ambassador to Canada, David Cohen. It’s all the time such a pleasure to see you, ambassador.

David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: Well it’s nice to be with you and make nice that is my first go to within the studio. Not my first go to with you and it’s nice to be right here.

Mercedes Stephenson: Well, it’s a primary go to on a reasonably thrilling weekend with every thing that’s taking place with this balloon.  I do know that you simply had been briefed on intelligence and safety. You’re a detailed good friend of the president. Canadians are this and so they’re involved and so are Americans. What are you able to inform us in regards to the incident when it comes to the importance that the Chinese are literally flying a balloon over North America with intelligence gathering capabilities?

David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: So I believe it’s a reminder of the necessity for us to be vigilant, the necessity for us to fund an enough defence, the necessity for us to have an enough technological defence. I believe it’s a reminder of the significance of NORAD to continental defence for each Canada and the United States. On the opposite hand, let’s not leap out of our sneakers right here. I imply it is a balloon that was at very excessive altitude. My info is that there was by no means any…no American residents or buildings had been ever in jeopardy for this. The balloons had been effectively above industrial airliner flight patterns and this isn’t the primary time that one of these a tool has been floated over the United States. It has occurred beforehand.

Mercedes Stephenson: I believe that half is outstanding. I simply need you to form of speak about that for a second as a result of persons are saying, “Well this is a sudden escalation.” But it’s simply we haven’t heard about this earlier than.   

David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: I believe that’s proper that we simply haven’t heard about it earlier than, nevertheless it’s one other reminder that while you’re coping with issues of delicate overseas relations and delicate intelligence issues, that’s not a time the place you really need your authorities to be full clear on a regular basis. So I imply I believe what’s vital is, the best way I have a look at this, is what’s vital is, it was identified, it was identified to our army and intelligence sources. There was a succesful, quick evaluation as to the dangers and the hazards and conclusions had been reached. And I believe within the monitoring of the trail, the place of the Pentagon is that if essential, if we turned frightened about what it’s that could possibly be noticed by means of this balloon, we had been ready to ameliorate these dangers. I imply it’s important to do not forget that China can be, and Russia, I imply additionally they have satellites. You know, they’ve low altitude satellites which might be continually taking photos of all the United States and of all of Canada for that matter.  

Mercedes Stephenson: Is this possibly extra about China sending a message: We can do it if we wish to than what it’s really gathering when it comes to intelligence?  

David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: So I hate to invest what China’s motivations will likely be. And you observed that public remark, in fact, is that that is…it’s gathering climate knowledge and it drifted astray. I’m undecided I imagine that it’s gathering climate knowledge, nevertheless it’s solely doable that it drifted astray and there was by no means any intention to have it flying over, you understand, over this a part of the United States. So…however I don’t wish to speculate about what China’s as much as. I’m glad to remark, although, that this actually ought to be a reinforcement for all of us, for our public that China just isn’t one thing…China just isn’t a rustic to be trifled with. They are a reputable risk to the United States and Canada, from a army perspective, from a defence perspective, from an intelligence perspective and from a commerce perspective, and I believe it underscores the explanations for sound and constant insurance policies by each Canada and the United States towards China. And it doesn’t imply these insurance policies are that we must always shutdown entry of China to our markets or we must always wall off our nations to China. It is a reminder of the have to be vigilant, of the necessity to concentrate and, you understand, I believe the United States’ coverage round China is sound and it’s a reminder of how sound it’s. Invest and is make investments of what we do effectively and place ourselves effectively. Align. Align ourselves with our allies and particularly, Canada. And then compete with compete having the broadest doable definition. It’s not simply commerce competitors, nevertheless it’s be ready to push again towards army incursions or intelligence incursions, pushed again towards human rights violations, towards non-market-based commerce practices. And I believe it’s that built-in strategy of working with China when we have to and once we ought to and the place it advantages all of us, however being ready to push again on China and to acknowledge that China to the United States—I’ll say it this manner—China just isn’t Canada. I imply, China is a possible risk and must be watched on a regular basis. And it’s a completely different relationship between the United States and China than there may be between the United States and Canada.  

Mercedes Stephenson: Do you suppose that Canada is hard sufficient policy-wise on China? Because there have been some questions on Chinese espionage right here, makes an attempt at Chinese interference and influencing our politics. Is the U.S. happy with the place the Canadian authorities’s taking?

David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: So I, you understand, I don’t understand how I might have answered that query a yr in the past, based mostly on info that I might have had then. But it’s fairly straightforward for me to reply that query now, which is I believe the United States is snug with the place Canada is with China. You know, coincident with the discharge of the Indo-Pacific Strategy, Canada had quite a bit to say about China and about its relationship with China and I believe all of us heard harder rhetoric, a higher sense of the threats that China performed at Canada and to North America. And frankly, I believe we heard an articulation of a coverage that was very near the coverage that the United States has adopted vis-à-vis China. So, proper now, in my time period as United States ambassador to Canada, I can’t actually level to something that Canada has performed that may not be fully in line with what the United States would do and is doing in the identical circumstance.,

Mercedes Stephenson: One final query. The president is visiting subsequent month. What do you anticipate the main target of that go to’s going to be? 

David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: So I’m glad we’re on the level the place you possibly can really say the president is visiting subsequent month. We have a month the place he’ll be visiting and I believe the themes of his go to will likely be to emphasise the significance of the U.S.-Canada relationship, the energy of that relationship. The president has beforehand stated, and I hope we’ll hear it once more, that the United States has no higher good friend, companion or ally on the earth than Canada and I believe that will likely be one of many themes.

I believe one other theme will likely be a number of the important locations the place we’re working collectively across the power transition, and the setting and local weather, and the power transition. I believe there’ll be dialog about a number of the deliverables that had been mentioned within the North America Leaders’ Summit, the place Canada and the United States are very aligned on future financial progress and really importantly, on the kind of progress. And to make use of Joe Biden’s phrases, which I’ve heard Prime Minister Trudeau use as effectively, “We want to build from the bottom up and from the middle out, not from the top down. And we want to have growth and recovery that benefits every segment of the economy, every segment of society and everyone in the economy.” And in order that’s such an vital shared worth, nevertheless it’s such an vital goal for each nations that I might anticipate that that may be one of many themes we’ll hear about on the go to.

Mercedes Stephenson: Well and I’m certain there’ll be some questions on commerce in there as effectively. Something we hope to speak to a different time when we now have not the state of affairs that’s at the moment unfolding dominating our ideas. Always a pleasure to talk to you, ambassador. Thank you for coming.

David Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada: A pleasure to talk with you and I’m glad to come back again at any time to speak about commerce.  

Mercedes Stephenson: I’m going to carry you to that.  

Up subsequent, the justice minister faces powerful questions on bail reform, gun management and medical help in dying.

[Break] 

Mercedes Stephenson: The premiers are urging the Liberal authorities to reverse Bill C-75, which they are saying made it simpler for violent repeat offenders to get bail.

Calls have grown louder following latest assaults on public transit and the killing of an OPP officer in late December.

Opposition Leader Pierre Poilievre launched a movement to reverse the invoice final week.

Pierre Poilievre, Opposition Leader : “The Conservatives are putting forward a motion in the House of Commons to reduce…to reverse Trudeau’s failed Liberal bail policy and ensure that repeat violent offenders stay behind bars rather than automatically being released.”

Mercedes Stephenson: Joining me now to speak in regards to the state of Canada’s system and bail is Justice Minister David Lametti. Minister, welcome. Nice to have you ever right here.

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: A pleasure to be right here.

Mercedes Stephenson: Do you suppose that repeat violent offenders, not the primary time, non-violent offences, however individuals have been earlier than the courts and been convicted on plenty of fees, plenty of occasions that not directly associated to a weapon or some form of violence towards one other individual, ought to be capable to get bail the best way they’re getting it proper now? Or do you suppose that that ought to be extra restricted and would you have a look at bringing in measures to make sure that if any person is a repeat violent offender, they’re not capable of get out and commit extra crimes whereas they’re on bail?

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: Well, we’ve regarded…we are going to have a look at the system, there’s no query, to see if we will enhance it. It is troublesome already. In at the least one gun offence that I can consider, there’s a reverse onus already. You have a proper to bail. In Canada, it’s a constitution proper. It’s additionally an previous frequent regulation proper, so it’s one of many oldest rights we now have. You’re harmless ‘til proven guilty. That being said, you can only be denied bail if you pose a threat to society. In most cases, it’s as much as the Crown to point out that the individual will likely be a risk to society and subsequently denied bail.

We’ve reversed the onus in intimate companion violence. One gun offence that I do know of, and repeat offenders in concept ought to be topic to that increased commonplace as a result of they might pose a risk to society. It’s as much as prosecutors to make these arguments in entrance of a decide. That being stated, we’ve heard the crime from premiers. We have seen some tragic occasions and our sympathies exit to the households of Constable Pierzchala and others who’ve been affected. And so we are going to do our greatest to see if there are different locations that we will toughen the system up in a manner that also complies with the constitution and the balances that we’re attempting to create because of the constitution, and we’re open to working with the provinces to verify additionally that the administration of justice on the provincial degree, the administration of the bail system works that Conservatives didn’t level out…

Mercedes Stephenson: But you’re the federal justice minister, so that you do have the ability to make these adjustments. Are you keen to make it tougher for repeat violent offenders like Mile Sanderson, like different offenders we’ve seen who’ve a protracted historical past?

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: Right.

Mercedes Stephenson: We’re not speaking a few first time.

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: Yes, keen to have a look at methods to make it harder. What the Conservatives fail to level out within the case of Mile Sanderson in addition to the case in Southwestern Ontario, that in each circumstances, the individual did have a bench warrant out for his or her arrest. They had breached their bail circumstances and so they had been alleged to have been re-arrested.

Mercedes Stephenson: And that doesn’t appear to be taking place in plenty of circumstances throughout Canada.

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: Well, and that’s the administration of the bail system, which falls on the provinces and I’m not blaming the provinces…

Mercedes Stephenson: But in the event that they weren’t out within the first place, you wouldn’t have to select them up both. 

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: Well, it’s an ongoing system, proper? And so, once more, the presumption is you get bail as a result of it’s a constitution proper, until you’re a risk to society, or it may be proven that you’re, or the chance, you understand, violently reoffending…  

Mercedes Stephenson: But you’d suppose within the circumstances of like repeat violent offences that goes in direction of the argument you is likely to be a risk to society? 

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: Well, it ought to be an argument that the Crown makes in these hearings. We will definitely have a look at methods to strengthen that.

Mercedes Stephenson: Let’s speak about weapons. On Friday, your authorities introduced that you simply had been repealing this very controversial modification to what was initially alleged to be about handguns. It bought expanded to incorporate lengthy weapons. Hunters had been very upset. Your authorities defended the invoice, stated that wasn’t the case. You weren’t going after these weapons. Now it appears you’re recognizing possibly you had been going after some weapons you didn’t intend to. What occurred there?

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: Well I believe we listened and we heard. It was by no means our intention to go after looking rifles. It was all the time our intention to go after handguns and assault rifles. And we heard plenty of vital voices locally, notably PolySeSouvient who needed a definition, an evergreen definition. And so we tried it. We didn’t fairly get it proper, had somewhat an excessive amount of attain.

Mercedes Stephenson: Went somewhat too broadly.

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: And so we’re pulling it and going again to the drafting board. Again, we listened to individuals…

Mercedes Stephenson: Is it going to come back again as simply handguns this time, the handgun modification? Or is it going to be broader however not embody looking rifles?

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: I’ll depart that to Minister Mendicino to work out. He’s going to exit and seek the advice of, I believe fairly intensively over coming weeks and months and we’ll see the place it lands. But it’s our intention to maintain Canadians protected. It is our intention to ban assault rifles. It is our intention to ban and purchase again. It is our intention to ban handguns. We’ve already frozen to some extent the weapons that we will, however we wish to enshrine this in regulation. And he’s going to proceed engaged on a definition after having consulted, however we heard individuals and, you understand, we heard individuals in rural Canada. We heard Indigenous voices and we heard hunters saying you caught my weapon. And our response was honest, which is we don’t imply to catch reputable looking weapons.

Mercedes Stephenson: Yeah. It appeared like possibly it wasn’t one of the best deliberate out earlier than it was introduced. But I do wish to ask you…

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: It’s really fairly…in equity, it’s really fairly a troublesome train to create an evergreen definition.

Mercedes Stephenson: I can think about with a altering business, however there may be one different subject I’m hoping to the touch on with you and that’s medical help in dying (MAiD). On Thursday, you introduced that you simply’re going to be pushing the deadline for psychological well being circumstances, being the explanation why persons are capable of search medical help in dying, to March of 2024. It was alleged to kick in final month. There’s been a number of concern about this, a number of concern that with psychological well being. It might be onerous to inform if an individual is in a way of thinking to make that call. That weak individuals may use psychological well being as a result of they’re experiencing nervousness and despair from being unhoused or missing the correct social helps, and that as an alternative of receiving the social helps that they should get effectively or to maintain them in housing or to verify they’re capable of purchase meals, that they’ll search MAiD as a substitute and these weak individuals could possibly be exploited.

Do you suppose that psychological well being ought to nonetheless be a motive why individuals can search MAiD in Canada?

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: Well, let me state on the outset that these circumstances that you simply’ve simply described usually are not…that don’t render one eligible for MAiD, beneath the psychological…beneath the regime that’s been elaborated by our professional panel.

Mercedes Stephenson: Even in the event that they go in and say I’m experiencing extreme nervousness and despair?

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: That’s proper. Yeah, no. You ought to, if you happen to’re experiencing extreme nervousness and despair, if you happen to’re having suicidal ideas, it’s best to see a…it’s best to search a health care provider’s assist. You ought to search assist: associates, hotlines. Help is there. Those persons are not eligible for MAiD. The regime and it is a little bit of a false impression that’s being…

Mercedes Stephenson: So people who find themselves suicidal usually are not eligible for MAiD?

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: Not in any respect. These are…what you’re are problems…psychological problems, psychological diseases which were handled by specialists over a protracted time period and the place there’s no chance of enchancment. This just isn’t a case of suicide. This is a vital piece of misinformation that’s being, frankly, superior by critics who don’t wish to see this a part of the regime transfer ahead or certainly, need us to again away from earlier elements of the MAiD regime. This just isn’t meant to use to people who find themselves having suicidal ideas. This just isn’t meant for individuals…

Mercedes Stephenson: But how will you assure that if despair is expounded to suicidal ideas?

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: Well, the…

Mercedes Stephenson: In some individuals, not in all.

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: The pointers which might be being…which were elaborated by the professional committee; we’ve now bought an additional yr to be sure that these get out to universities educating drugs to practitioners, the assorted faculties. Professional our bodies throughout Canada will be capable to internalize these pointers and develop the instruments in order that this will get out to the career. Those pointers are fairly extreme. What we’re speaking about is a really tiny, tiny fraction of circumstances inside one other tiny fraction of circumstances even on end-of-life regime circumstances. Vast majority of MAiD circumstances are end-of-life: most cancers…

Mercedes Stephenson: Well thus far. We haven’t opened it to psychological well being but, so we don’t know these numbers.

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: Well, we now have opened since 2021, a non-end-of-life regime with further standards and safeguards. And even then, we’re now beginning to get knowledge based mostly on the 2021 regime, as of January and getting higher knowledge is vital, this aggregated knowledge particularly. That knowledge nonetheless reveals that it’s a tiny fraction. The numbers that I’ve seen, a tiny, tiny fraction of people who find themselves non-end-of-life and the psychological well being, individuals affected by psychological problems will likely be a tiny fraction of that tiny fraction.

Mercedes Stephenson: But the Canadian Mental Health Association says that you could’t decide whether or not or not psychological well being is finally curable.

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: I’ll base my opinion on what Dr. Mona Gupta stated who chaired our committee who’s one of many main specialists in Canada. She stated that the apply, the practitioners who’re working with these sorts of sufferers are snug with the factors as elaborated and really, she feels they’re prepared to maneuver ahead now. What we’re doing with this pause, is giving everyone an opportunity to internalize these pointers and we wish everyone to be on the identical web page. It permits us to fight a number of the misinformation that’s on the market. But this gained’t open the floodgates. This is…individuals affected by psychological sickness are struggling. People affected by psychological problems are struggling and plenty of them, we all know, would love entry to MAiD as a result of they’re struggling is incurable and insupportable. And in order that they have the identical…they need to be in the identical place as some other Canadian who’s able to making that call.

Mercedes Stephenson: Mr. Lametti, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us right this moment.

David Lametti, Justice Minister and Attorney General: Okay. Thank you.

Mercedes Stephenson: Up subsequent, what I’ll be watching subsequent week. The premiers head to Ottawa, searching for a well being care deal.

[Break]

Mercedes Stephenson: Tim for somewhat evaluation on what I’ve bought an eye fixed on for this week.

The premiers will likely be right here in Ottawa to ask for extra money for well being care. They need $28 billion, not pocket change. The prime minister clearly has a suggestion up his sleeve and he stated that there will likely be strings hooked up. Will the premiers, particularly from money strapped provinces, be able to say no to any deal? And how will the curveball of facet offers with every province form the political technique within the assembly? The divide and conquer tactic with the provinces labored effectively for the Liberals on little one care, so we’ll be searching for that.

And in fact, we’ll even be retaining an eye fixed out for additional developments within the diplomatic tensions between the U.S. and China.

I’m Mercedes Stephenson. Thanks for hanging out with us right this moment, and we’ll see you proper again right here, subsequent week.